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What pricepoint does bulldozer need to be competitive? - Page 5

post #41 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared;15273478 
4.6GHz is "very high"?

It's only 100Mhz higher than my 1090T ran, which was probably faster than the bulldozer chip at those clocks.

4.6GHz was evidently too high for the chip in question.

1090Ts that can do 4.5GHz are not common.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared;15273478 
Most people here wouldn't stop at 4.6GHz, they'd go until they were limited either by voltage, or heat. Which may be into the 5GHz+ range, where the performance gains will be minimal, but the power draw will be exponential.

You cannot separate heat and power draw. Every single watt that goes into a CPU comes out as heat and if the CPU is pulling 300+ watts, you've almost certainly already hit the wall on heat.

I've owned some of the best air coolers (Arrow and NH-D14 among them) and not one of them is capable of moving more than 300 watts of heat. Same applies for most lower end watercooling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinitroN;15273526 
The i3-2100 is a better choice than anything from AMD for gaming at any price.

I strongly disagree, unless you don't intend to OC.
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post #42 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post
I strongly disagree, unless you don't intend to OC.
The i3-2100 is faster than anything from AMD for gaming. It would probably take a 4.2ghz+ BD chip to match it's performance in gaming.

Beyond the fact the BD has to be overclocked just to match the performance of the i3, the i3 consumes much less power and generates much less excess heat. Plus the i3 offers a better upgrade path and does not require an expensive motherboard.

Even if you don't OC, the i3 is a much better choice than anything from AMD.
    
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post #43 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post
I strongly disagree, unless you don't intend to OC.
The very first Google result; how much does an i3-2120 cost?







Edited by jlells01 - 10/12/11 at 2:02am
post #44 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinitroN View Post
>50W is where we actually see a difference in bills and such. Beyond that, there's also the extra heat to consider which is definitely a big deal.

The i3-2100 will probably perform similarly to the BD at 4.5ghz but costs less and requires no time or effort put into stabilizing and overclock. Plus the power issue as mentioned above.
Say we use 120W for 6 hours a day @ $0.15/kWh
120W*6h*$0.15kW/h = $0.108/day, or $3.24 per month

You'd probably spend more money on toilet paper.
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post #45 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by sLowEnd View Post
Say we use 120W for 6 hours a day @ $0.15/kWh
120W*6h*$0.15kW/h = $0.108/day, or $3.24 per month

You'd probably spend more money on toilet paper.
Point taken.

Now what about the heat?
    
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post #46 of 67
You're more than welcome to get a $260 8150, but I don't think it's worth the price.

Cinebench:

8150


i5-2500k




It's the same thing we see in the reviews.

Any advantage bulldozer has in highly threaded workloads is diminished the higher you overclock vs the SB chips. On the flip side, in lightly threaded apps the bulldozer chips continues to fall further and further behind as clock speeds increase.

Per the point of this thread, how much does AMD need to reduce pricing... I'd say the 8150 is a sub $200 chip in order to be competitive. Regardless of power draw, it doesn't perform.
Edited by BallaTheFeared - 10/12/11 at 2:06am
    
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post #47 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinitroN View Post
It would probably take a 4.2ghz+ BD chip to match it's performance in gaming.
I agree, but 4.2GHz+ isn't likely to be uncommon from DB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MinitroN View Post
Beyond the fact the BD has to be overclocked just to match the performance of the i3, the i3 consumes much less power and generates much less excess heat. Plus the i3 offers a better upgrade path and does not require an expensive motherboard.
All true, not that BD automatically needs a particularly expensive motherboard.

I have a GA-970A-UD3 that was about 100 dollars shipped, that should handle any BD chip that any of my spare heatsinks can cool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MinitroN View Post
Even if you don't OC, the i3 is a much better choice than anything from AMD.
Even if you do, you mean.

And I still disagree. The i3-2100 is ~120 dollars. I could build a Phenom II X4 955/965BE system for the exact same price, and it would do most things, including gaming, better. It wouldn't be that much better in certain areas, but it would certainly perform better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlells01 View Post
The very first Google result; how much does an i3-2120 cost?
Way too much for it's overclocked performance.
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post #48 of 67
It should be pointed out that even in demanding highly-threaded games there still needs to be one fast core.

I see usage on one of my cores go up to ~90% on Caspian Border on my processor. I'd imagine it'd hit 100% and choke up with an AMD.

EDIT: The 955/965 would still be slower and would need to be overclocked to match the i3, inevitably requiring more time/effort and producing more heat.
    
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post #49 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post
And I still disagree. The i3-2100 is ~120 dollars. I could build a Phenom II X4 955/965BE system for the exact same price, and it would do most things, including gaming, better.
It's rather startling how you keep going on about the superiority of an X4 over an i3, yet completely ignore the benchmarks posted...

Fact is, an i3-2120 (which would be very efficient, and cool to run) handily outperforms the X4 955 in every game (excluding one that is GPU bottlenecked); end of story.
post #50 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinitroN View Post
The 955/965 would still be slower and would need to be overclocked to match the i3, inevitably requiring more time/effort and producing more heat.
A 4GHz Phenom II x4 is a faster gaming CPU than a 3.1GHz i3, and way faster in many other usage scenarios.

It would be a bit hotter, and it would take more time/effort to OC, but I don't consider these things particularly relevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlells01 View Post
It's rather startling how you keep going on about the superiority of an X4 over an i3, yet completely ignore the benchmarks posted...

Fact is, an i3-2120 (which would be very efficient, and cool to run) handily outperforms the X4 955 in every game (excluding one that is GPU bottlenecked); end of story.
You are looking at stock performance, so no, your end of story doesn't tell a story at all.
Edited by Blameless - 10/12/11 at 2:13am
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