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Why did AMD waste all their resources on an architecture redesign? - Page 4

post #31 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasimojo View Post
I started to say something about rose-colored glasses, but the more I wrote, the more I considered that you may be onto something. I can see where AMD was banking on Bulldozer being the last hurrah for the AM3, funding their continued development on their next platform.

Trouble is, it clearly fell short, and I wonder how much that may set them back.
I feel that while Bulldozer isn't exactly a speed demon, the changes that were undertaken were needed. Bulldozer as a whole is quite a disappointment, but I could see these drastic changes leading to something great; it just takes time. I feel them being so late to the market somewhat forced them to release a lackluster (or unfinished) product. This happened with the HD2000 series GPUs which lead to the HD3000 series which was quite a success.

With that said, I don't really see how Bulldozer will sell. It costs more than Sandy Bridge and performs worse than Phenom II. With this in mind, I can't help but think they have big plans for the future.

AMD is doing fairly well in the GPU department, so they may be using it as a crutch until the CPU department gets back on track.

Or of course some miraculous fix could come out and increase Bulldozer performance by like 75%
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post #32 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by tehmaggot View Post
I feel that while Bulldozer isn't exactly a speed demon, the changes that were undertaken were needed. Bulldozer as a whole is quite a disappointment, but I could see these drastic changes leading to something great; it just takes time. I feel them being so late to the market somewhat forced them to release a lackluster (or unfinished) product. This happened with the HD2000 series GPUs which lead to the HD3000 series which was quite a success.
Are said changes supposed to make it slower than their own product from 2+ years ago?
    
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post #33 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post
AMD should've rehashed K10.

32nm. More cache. Eight cores (if they could fit two on 90nm, four on 65nm, and six on 45nm; why not eight on 32nm?). Refined pipeline. New instruction sets. 256-bit FPU.

This would've been considerably faster than Bulldozer.
It would have left them way behind in the future however.
post #34 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCollins View Post
It would have left them way behind in the future however.
Why do people like this word with AMD? It's always about the future. Even when the future becomes the present the cold reality they keep talking about the future.
    
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post #35 of 56
Perhaps AMD needs a new architecture to build off of for the future - that fine.

But what I don't get is that Bulldozer obviously isn't ready from prime time yet, so why didn't they just make a 32nm Phenom II x8 for right now? It could have been faster in both single-threaded AND multi-threaded performance, and then release Bulldozer once it'd be better than a die-shrink of the previous gen.
Edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 - 10/12/11 at 5:02pm
 
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post #36 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by tehmaggot View Post
I feel that while Bulldozer isn't exactly a speed demon, the changes that were undertaken were needed. Bulldozer as a whole is quite a disappointment, but I could see these drastic changes leading to something great; it just takes time. I feel them being so late to the market somewhat forced them to release a lackluster (or unfinished) product. This happened with the HD2000 series GPUs which lead to the HD3000 series which was quite a success.

With that said, I don't really see how Bulldozer will sell. It costs more than Sandy Bridge and performs worse than Phenom II. With this in mind, I can't help but think they have big plans for the future.

AMD is doing fairly well in the GPU department, so they may be using it as a crutch until the CPU department gets back on track.

Or of course some miraculous fix could come out and increase Bulldozer performance by like 75%
Part of the problem with BD is that little software exists that take advantage of some of its design charecteristics and that its design does not work with current software.

Its really a CPU aiming to change the software market, I expect OEM's to get smoking deals on these cpu's and to see AMD push its 30% market share up aggressively with llano,bobcat and budget fx4 cpu's.

Once they can swing some ISA and programming models in the direction they want to go, we will see something special a few years from now.

BD isn't about today looking at it, its about where AMD wants to the programming model to go in 5-10 years.

I want to be along for that ride, because long term, if what I suspect about what they are planning is correct, we will see a massive boost in compute performance.

Thats all speculation though.
post #37 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinitroN View Post
Why do people like this word with AMD? It's always about the future. Even when the future becomes the present the cold reality they keep talking about the future.
Because the x86 single thread program model is limited by silicon and clock speed and it must become paralleled , there is no option here.
post #38 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinitroN View Post
Are said changes supposed to make it slower than their own product from 2+ years ago?
It may have just been a necessary move to pave the way for the future. I doubt that they willingly went with a decline in performance with absolutely no plans.
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post #39 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCollins View Post
Because the x86 single thread program model is limited by silicon and clock speed and it must become paralleled , there is no option here.
And the only option is the hamper single-threaded performance in the mean time? Yet again, what's wrong with a 32nm Phenom II x8 as a stop-gap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tehmaggot View Post
It may have just been a necessary move to pave the way for the future. I doubt that they willingly went with a decline in performance with absolutely no plans.
You don't need to release a CPU using said architecture just to "prepare for the future" - there's nothing wrong with stop-gaps. (see: Core Duo, NOT the Core 2 Duo)
Edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 - 10/12/11 at 5:07pm
 
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post #40 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCollins View Post
Because the x86 single thread program model is limited by silicon and clock speed and it must become paralleled , there is no option here.
Intel isn't planning for the future either? Intel's warchest is like 50 times bigger fyi. AMD's time as performance king has been over for 5 years and they won't ever lead the market segment again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tehmaggot View Post
It may have just been a necessary move to pave the way for the future. I doubt that they willingly went with a decline in performance with absolutely no plans.
Does this future involve bad CPU sales and falling stock prices? Because if it does then there may not be much of a future.

I highly doubt they had a coherent plan considering they hired their CEO in August.
    
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