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The problem with Bulldozer...

post #1 of 121
Thread Starter 
...is mostly software based.

It's well known already the current operating systems do not properly schedule threads for best performance on Bulldozer. We've all seen benchmarks from the Windows 8 Beta showing a performance improvement compared to Windows 7.

I've been reading through plenty of other reviews and I found this page to be extremely interesting.

What they did was run POV-Ray on a single core of a BD and of a PII 1100T.
Then they ran on BD Core 1 + Core 2, which is both halves of a single module. Then they ran on BD Core 1 + Core 3, two cores from two separate modules.

What is most interesting in their findings is that running on Core 1 + Core 2, they saw a 67.6% improvement compared to running on a single core. But when they ran on Core 1 + Core 3, they saw a 97.5% improvement.

The obvious thing to realize from this is that we could see a 30% improvement in Bulldozer just from proper software support and thread scheduling. Especially in lightly threaded situations.

Even heavily threaded apps can still see a benefit from being BD optimized. As mentioned in the "20 questions part 2", the L2 cache is shared. So if two threads that need the same data are both scheduled in a single module, there could be some benefits that way too.

The software isn't going to come overnight, it's probably going to come gradually. But it will come. And once it does, it will be like a whole new Bulldozer.

Edit: It is a shame though that AMD hasn't been working with software partners AHEAD of the BD launch. So that the software can be here ready and waiting for us. If Intel had such a radical CPU that required new software to get best performance, you know they would have forced every big software company (especially benchmarking tools) to be optimized before the first reviews get shown to the public. But AMD just doesn't have the influence that Intel does.
Edited by wedge - 10/13/11 at 7:04am
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post #2 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge;15290970 
...is mostly software based.

It's well known already the current operating systems do not properly schedule threads for best performance on Bulldozer. We've all seen benchmarks from the Windows 8 Beta showing a performance improvement compared to Windows 7.

THIS. The way BD is intended to work is completely different; the OS scheduler needs to be BD aware to really take advantage of this chip.
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post #3 of 121
Its a pity this is going to be hounded and seen as just another excuse. Bulldozer is a success, it may not make a clean sweep but its scalable and will see major increases in speed with updates and when people learn to work with it. The fact it is used in servers will help push this. A good example is the PS3. When it came out no one could tell "butt" from elbow... Now look at it.

This thread will be overrun with AMD sucks very soon, and its a pity because it could lead to a very intelligent interesting conversation instead. It would be nice if OCN could stop being fanboys for either side and pursue some performance. I have faith Bulldozer will perform, and be a hell of a lot of fun overclocking as el gappo said.
Edited by Sauerkraut - 10/13/11 at 7:20am
post #4 of 121
It's still not that impressive that Phenom II outperforms it.

Also, what chocked me the most wasn't the stock performance, but the overclocked power consumption.

Now, that's what I hope AMD will fix.
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post #5 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge;15290970 
If Intel had such a radical CPU that required new software to get best performance, you know they would have forced every big software company (especially benchmarking tools) to be optimized before the first reviews get shown to the public. But AMD just doesn't have the influence that Intel does.

Not true. The same thing happened when Intel introduced the Pentium 4. The original P4 worked great on code that was optimized for it, but it was horrible on everything else. A P4 at 1.4 GHz was slower than a P3-900 running Windows and contemporary software. Intel had to add a massive on-die L2 cache to the design just to compete with the Athlon.
     
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post #6 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsc1973;15291137 
Not true. The same thing happened when Intel introduced the Pentium 4. The original P4 worked great on code that was optimized for it, but it was horrible on everything else. A P4 at 1.4 GHz was slower than a P3-900 running Windows and contemporary software. Intel had to add a massive on-die L2 cache to the design just to compete with the Athlon.

This
post #7 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsc1973;15291137 
Not true. The same thing happened when Intel introduced the Pentium 4. The original P4 worked great on code that was optimized for it, but it was horrible on everything else. A P4 at 1.4 GHz was slower than a P3-900 running Windows and contemporary software. Intel had to add a massive on-die L2 cache to the design just to compete with the Athlon.

This. I can remember that if it was yesterday tongue.gif
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post #8 of 121
Windows 7 Bulldozer Edition (imo MS should release some service pack for bulldozer only if you have a BD CPU.)
    
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post #9 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty453;15291175 
Windows 7 Bulldozer Edition (imo MS should release some service pack for bulldozer only if you have a BD CPU.)

Microsoft is not spending 1 dollar on this idea lol. They don't care about pleasing people which all together is 0.00001% of the total windows users.
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post #10 of 121
If true it's a bit of a "chicken or the egg" scenario. And as posted if this is the case why weren't they working with the software guys before now? It's not like BD just appeared overnight! OR if you know that the current software is not favorable to your new tech why release the said part if it will only look "meh" when put next to the competition..... Or your old stuff in some tests:eek:.

I would love there to be some almighty PROBLEM! explaining why it just don't perform as good as AMD fans would like (me included even though i wasn't going to buy one). Maybe it just is the fact that it's just a poor design (an NV30 if you will:rolleyes:). It seems that lots of AMD fans are just looking for some "excuse" as to why it under performs:

Window 7 scheduler.
Cache thrashing.
BIOS issues.
driver issues.
AGESA issues.

Even if any of the above ring true it would still be an AMD fail for not testing before launch.

I'm the biggest AMD fan i know:p and have built NOTHING else since the TBird 1000mhz Socket A and i'm so underwhelmed with BD's performance it almost stings!!! latest tech should ALWAYS BEAT your last tech REGARDLESS of if it beats the competition.

In some tests i have seen even with a MASSIVE clock speed advantage it fails to beat the Intel CPU's it hot and thirsty for juice when OC'ed. Back to the factory for a re spin BD i'm afraid.

Thanx.
Edited by Darkstalker420 - 10/13/11 at 7:27am
    
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