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The problem with Bulldozer... - Page 7

post #61 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkstalker420;15291208 
If true it's a bit of a "chicken or the egg" scenario. And as posted if this is the case why weren't they working with the software guys before now? It's not like BD just appeared overnight! OR if you know that the current software is not favorable to your new tech why release the said part if it will only look "meh" when put next to the competition..... Or your old stuff in some tests:eek:.

I would love there to be some almighty PROBLEM! explaining why it just don't perform as good as AMD fans would like (me included even though i wasn't going to buy one). Maybe it just is the fact that it's just a poor design (an NV30 if you will:rolleyes:). It seems that lots of AMD fans are just looking for some "excuse" as to why it under performs:

Window 7 scheduler.
Cache thrashing.
BIOS issues.
driver issues.
AGESA issues.

Even if any of the above ring true it would still be an AMD fail for not testing before launch.

I'm the biggest AMD fan i know:p and have built NOTHING else since the TBird 1000mhz Socket A and i'm so underwhelmed with BD's performance it almost stings!!! latest tech should ALWAYS BEAT your last tech REGARDLESS of if it beats the competition.

In some tests i have seen even with a MASSIVE clock speed advantage it fails to beat the Intel CPU's it hot and thirsty for juice when OC'ed. Back to the factory for a re spin BD i'm afraid.

Thanx.

This^^. BD is a flop.

It "may" get fixed and be competitive with a Sandy Bridge. But even if it does (which I don't believe it will), IB is going to blow it clear into next year.

"Bang for the buck?" Maybe, but I don't see it yet. Top dog in overall performance? not happening.

I've owned both brands, I'm not a fanboy of either. I had hoped it would be better so Intel would have some real competition which might help to drive prices down more.
post #62 of 121
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyronn94;15294131 
Yes, Bulldozer was not as good as expected.
We all know that.
It was the first in a new Architecture, Piledriver will be FAR superior.
Let's move on.

Agreed. The fact that BD didn't live up to expectations is the whole reason for all the discussion.

Look at it this way: It's only the average performance of BD that is the letdown.
At its best, it does beat the 2600K in some benchmarks. That should remove any doubt that it has some serious potential.

So BD's strong points are VERY strong. The problem is that it has some very bad weak points at the same time. Most significantly is poor IPC. If AMD concentrates its effort there, then the Piledriver will definitely be much more impressive.

Hey, look at that! IPC is the first thing on their list of things to improve with Piledriver:
8%20amd%20roadmap.jpg
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post #63 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz;15294107 
I'm on my laptop now, so I can't double check, but for every Phenom II chip I've owned its been reference clock with the HTT clock being 2000Mhz (Or 2600Mhz in the case of Bulldozer/1800Mhz for Phenom I iirc)

you are confusing HTT with the HT link......
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post #64 of 121
Windows was never "optimized" for Sandy Bridge yet it still outperforms Bulldozer. Does that mean SB will perform better with software optimization too? If that is the case...SB will still win.

This more or less seems like a failed attempt to find another excuse to make BD seem better than it is. It is, and will be, a total failure.
post #65 of 121
First of all can I just say that theres alot of people posting on this thread who have absolutaly nothin important to say other they yea intel rules amd Sucks.

now to the important part. I hope that in waiting a couple week that all these shinadagans clear. alot of reviews seem to be showing alot of different numbers and theres alot of theories as to why they are under performing, the fact that utilizing core 1+3 yields 30%+ more speed than core 1+2 clearly shows some sort of schedualing problem. secondly, when u look at the power consumption of an overclocked BD, I dunno about u guys but I see somethign wrong there too cuz 450W is alot and seems like something in the CPU and Running properly. Im not making any excusses for the bad chip. Im just hoping that they did screw up and can fix it fast because I , along with alot of ppl here would hate to see AMD leave the CPU market

Edit: also to every who keeps saying "windows 7 isnt optimised for SB and they work fine.." well BD wasnt designed with the conventional x86. its a departure from AMD cpu's of the past. SB has a similar structure as its previous architecture and work the same basic way...
Edited by Havokr505 - 10/13/11 at 11:55am
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post #66 of 121
Well I read this whole thread and it was very informative to be honest, despite the fanboys that have nothing of interest to say than what has already been said 100+ times on this forum. First of all, to all the haters, please understand that on this forum, some people are interested in more than just whether chip A beats chip B. Not all of us care about having the best BF3 equipped PC and nothing else.

Despite the fact that the performance is lacking, this chip may be a lot of fun to overclock and tweak around. I buy AMD because I love to fiddle around with the BIOS (UEFI soon) settings and see what makes my chip tick. I learn a lot about my system from doing this and I find it to be more rewarding than running this or that game on max settings or improving my k/d ratio on some random game. I really don't care if I'm losing 40 fps in some mediocre game that my current chip is already pulling 60+ fps on. That being said, I found this thread interesting because there are other people, like me, who also love to mess around with the cpu settings beyond bumping up clock speed rates and calling it a day. I really hope that the overclocking community finds out what's wrong with this chip and how the performance and power consumption issues can be addressed, so that one day, perhaps the people at AMD can see what we've done and incorporate such changes in the form of a hotfix or implement them in their next product.
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post #67 of 121
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwiasian;15294437 
Windows was never "optimized" for Sandy Bridge yet it still outperforms Bulldozer. Does that mean SB will perform better with software optimization too? If that is the case...SB will still win.

This more or less seems like a failed attempt to find another excuse to make BD seem better than it is. It is, and will be, a total failure.

Sandy Bridge doesn't need any optimization's because it is the best at the 'old' methodology of processing. Everything has been optimized for it for a long time already.

Bulldozer represents the 'new' way of processing, which has the potential to be much better. But software is still trying to use it the old way, which just doesn't work properly.

Let me put it another way:
Intel is optimizing its cpu's for today.
AMD is optimizing its cpu's for tomorrow.

That's why Intel's performance is so good today. The cpu's are, in essence, optimized for the software, instead of the other way around...
Which one do you think will be better in the long run? A cpu can only be optimized for software for so long before they hit a wall.
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post #68 of 121
problem is u dont really see "innovation for the future" anyways lol
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post #69 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by PsikyoJebus;15294648 
Well I read this whole thread and it was very informative to be honest, despite the fanboys that have nothing of interest to say than what has already been said 100+ times on this forum. First of all, to all the haters, please understand that on this forum, some people are interested in more than just whether chip A beats chip B. Not all of us care about having the best BF3 equipped PC and nothing else.

Despite the fact that the performance is lacking, this chip may be a lot of fun to overclock and tweak around. I buy AMD because I love to fiddle around with the BIOS (UEFI soon) settings and see what makes my chip tick. I learn a lot about my system from doing this and I find it to be more rewarding than running this or that game on max settings or improving my k/d ratio on some random game. I really don't care if I'm losing 40 fps in some mediocre game that my current chip is already pulling 60+ fps on. That being said, I found this thread interesting because there are other people, like me, who also love to mess around with the cpu settings beyond bumping up clock speed rates and calling it a day. I really hope that the overclocking community finds out what's wrong with this chip and how the performance and power consumption issues can be addressed, so that one day, perhaps the people at AMD can see what we've done and incorporate such changes in the form of a hotfix or implement them in their next product.

Thank God!
Someone who thinks like i do!
I want more than 'paint by numbers' OC'ing.
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post #70 of 121
Has anyone tried BD on windows 8 beta ? to see if it helps ?
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