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The problem with Bulldozer... - Page 9

post #81 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom_Dave;15294320 
IB is going to blow it clear into next year.

No, it's not, current estimates put it at ~10% faster than SB, no idea about OCing potential but considering SBs tend to hit a limit around 5.5Ghz no matter the cooling, I'd imagine that's architectural (Just like it was with Athlon64s and 3Ghz) which IB may do very little to improve.
Quote:
Originally Posted by B NEGATIVE;15294426 
you are confusing HTT with the HT link......
Hyper
Transport
Technology

I'm just going by what CPUz says.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge;15295168 
When did p4 become an eventual winner? Didn't Intel abandon that entire architecture because it had no future?
Another example of them designing for today instead of for tomorrow.

Northwood, it competed well with the Athlon XP and was only truly beaten when the Athlon64 came out, it also didn't have the bad heat output of later Prescott P4s.
    
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post #82 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz;15295178 
No, it's not, current estimates put it at ~10% faster than SB, no idea about OCing potential but considering SBs tend to hit a limit around 5.5Ghz no matter the cooling, I'd imagine that's architectural (Just like it was with Athlon64s and 3Ghz) which IB may do very little to improve.

and how well is BD fairing against a 4 core SB right now?

Also, IB is 22nm tech...
post #83 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz;15295178 
Hyper
Transport
Technology

I'm just going by what CPUz says.
He's right, though. AMD has always called the reference clock the HTT. I always differentiate the two by specifically saying HT Link when I talk about that other thing that you confused HTT with.
post #84 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom_Dave;15295229 
and how well is BD fairing against a 4 core SB right now?

Also, IB is 22nm tech...

And once the software side of things improves, and AMD fixes the cache issues?

What does 22nm have to do with it? It's a dieshrunk SB, whether the 3D transistors improve its OCability or not is what matters, SB tends to hit a limit around 5.5Ghz. Just like Athlon64s hit 3Ghz but not much higher, 65nm didn't really help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by decimator;15295244 
He's right, though. AMD has always called the reference clock the HTT. I always differentiate the two by specifically saying HT Link when I talk about that other thing that you confused HTT with.

Ahh, I prefer ref clock because it actually explains what it does. :/
    
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post #85 of 121
So...
1: Buy a FX 8120.
2: Disable half of each module.
3: You now own a very decent quad core CPU?
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post #86 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz;15295293 
And once the software side of things improves, and AMD fixes the cache issues?

We'll talk then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz;15295293 
What does 22nm have to do with it? It's a dieshrunk SB, whether the 3D transistors improve its OCability or not is what matters, SB tends to hit a limit around 5.5Ghz. Just like Athlon64s hit 3Ghz but not much higher, 65nm didn't really help.

That's only one example (also an AMD example, not Intel). Intel's track record has shown considerable improvement in processors over the shrinking of dies.

Smaller dies means lower voltage, less heat, and the ability to squeeze more cores in the same space. Even if it was equal to SB in processing, it would still be a much much better chip...
post #87 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge;15290970 
...is mostly software based.
-snip-
What they did was run POV-Ray on a single core of a BD and of a PII 1100T.
Then they ran on BD Core 1 + Core 2, which is both halves of a single module. Then they ran on BD Core 1 + Core 3, two cores from two separate modules.

What is most interesting in their findings is that running on Core 1 + Core 2, they saw a 67.6% improvement compared to running on a single core. But when they ran on Core 1 + Core 3, they saw a 97.5% improvement.

The obvious thing to realize from this is that we could see a 30% improvement in Bulldozer just from proper software support and thread scheduling. Especially in lightly threaded situations.

All of this is well and fine, but it ISN'T going to improve BD's biggest problem (IMO) - single threaded performance. Sure, it will improve (could improve) multi-threaded performance, but no matter what, single thread perf stinks. And you can't blame that on the modular design - when only a single thread is used, it's got control of the whole module.

No matter how many times JF-AMD promised IPC increases the reality is quite the opposite. (funny how that works.. people who work in marketing, yeah, that's their job, but he was -lying-)

BD at 3.6+ is slower thread for thread than a Deneb or Thuban at lower clocks. No amount of Windows 8 "gonna change everything" is gonna change anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm;15295334 
So...
1: Buy a FX 8120.
2: Disable half of each module.
3: You now own a very decent quad core CPU?

You'd probably have roughly PhII 955 BE stock performance if you did, and you'd pay a lot more for it.
Edited by pursuinginsanity - 10/13/11 at 2:25pm
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post #88 of 121
I have my BD on order, the only thing i can't believe is the power consumption, i think something somewhere is going wrong, it's not possible for a chip to go backwards, worst case scenario BD is really a phenom II X8 it still is supposed to be faster than the 1100T, I don't see how any company could go backwards like that, something is wrong with BD, either the software controlling it does not know how to effectively take advantage of it, or maybe something lower with the BIOS on the boards....It may or may not get fixed in the coming weeks/months does not matter to me after all

Ignorance is bliss biggrin.gif
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post #89 of 121
It's a new architecture, so there is vast scope for improvement, and can only get better, come Piledriver. biggrin.gif

I'm not convinced by this Windows 7 issue. If there was an issue, I doubt Microsoft would do anything about it, what with 8 on the way.

A few people have mentioned Phenom II x8's or Phenom III's. tongue.gif
Would AMD ever do something like that?

And if they did, would they use BD architecture for it?
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post #90 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by PsikyoJebus;15294648 
Well I read this whole thread and it was very informative to be honest, despite the fanboys that have nothing of interest to say than what has already been said 100+ times on this forum. First of all, to all the haters, please understand that on this forum, some people are interested in more than just whether chip A beats chip B. Not all of us care about having the best BF3 equipped PC and nothing else.

Despite the fact that the performance is lacking, this chip may be a lot of fun to overclock and tweak around. I buy AMD because I love to fiddle around with the BIOS (UEFI soon) settings and see what makes my chip tick. I learn a lot about my system from doing this and I find it to be more rewarding than running this or that game on max settings or improving my k/d ratio on some random game. I really don't care if I'm losing 40 fps in some mediocre game that my current chip is already pulling 60+ fps on. That being said, I found this thread interesting because there are other people, like me, who also love to mess around with the cpu settings beyond bumping up clock speed rates and calling it a day. I really hope that the overclocking community finds out what's wrong with this chip and how the performance and power consumption issues can be addressed, so that one day, perhaps the people at AMD can see what we've done and incorporate such changes in the form of a hotfix or implement them in their next product.

Yes, this ^^, i find it fun to OC, specially if i can get close to the magic 5ghz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm;15295334 
So...
1: Buy a FX 8120.
2: Disable half of each module.
3: You now own a very decent quad core CPU?

More like a crappier phenom II x4 but that can OC close to 5ghz.

As for power draw....it's not as if i fold 24/7 or anything, i probably play around 4 hours a day tops, and the rest of the time the pc is off.
But i'm happy i didnt sold my OCZ 500W PSU, i think i might leave the 950w for the GPU's and the 500W alone for the CPU lol!


I dont think BD is a total fail, did AMD ever had so much overclocking potential?

I dont recall seeing any Phenom II reaching close to 5ghz, heck not even 4.5ghz with ease, which seems to be standart to BD.

They even have a 2M/4C with 4.2ghz at STOCK, yeah it might not perform as good but its a nice frequency bump from previous generations.

I believe that the next generation will improve on the IPC and the other to come will improve even more in IPC and frequency.

BD is architecture that might have a future, since we all know Phenom II was a dead end, they had to ditch that and come up with something up, it might not have pleased everyone, but its a start.

EDIT: There is one thing i dont understand and i would appreciate if someone explained it to me, i've read that BD has 4 Instructions per Clock and Phenom II has 3 Instruction per Clock. Therefor the IPC should have risen and not declained.
Edited by Erick - 10/13/11 at 3:20pm
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