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A (Somewhat) detailed insight into Bulldozer Performance - Page 5

post #41 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seronx View Post
1. ) Cache problem is Write Through and design flaws
They are not planned to be fixed by B3 but by Vishera

2. ) CPU Scheduling is a bad excuse

3. ) Power consumption is a mixed bag you have a high variance 1137 chips consume 500W 1134 and 1135 chips consuming less

Normal Consuming Chips:
http://images.hardwarecanucks.com/im...X-8150-4th.gif

Awful Consuming Chips:
http://images.bit-tech.net/content_i...w/amdfx-5b.jpg

All 1137 chips have pretty bad power consumption

4. ) Delays aren't really a problem as they are pretty close to clock requirements
How much less power do 1134 and 1135 chips use than 1137 chips?
What doesn't make sense to me is,why AMD is making a new revision,but not fixing the cache problems?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyDiamond View Post
Software = problem? How about.... No.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/dis...er_Fiasco.html

That sounds like it has a lot more to do with it. I'm sure some tweaks with software are going to help, but that's just like everything and anything.
Definitely design flaw. Wasted transistors. Inefficient design.
You would think that a processor supposed to turn the tide for AMD should have been mostly hand crafted. It's a shame.
Automated design or hand crafted shouldn't make a difference.
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post #42 of 55
Is the 10-15% increase of piledriver referring to IPC?
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post #43 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy MG View Post
Automated design or hand crafted shouldn't make a difference.
Ive seen 2 people that have said the opposite based on personal experience. Do you have personal experience? Im not attacking you, I would really like to know.

Also, we are NOT talking about excuses. We are listing reasons. There is no excuse for releasing a product that wasn't ready.

And software DOES have an impact on its performance, specifically FP heavy work. If the FPU is what is holding performance back in a certain task, using XOP or FMA4 could help reduce that limit, but unfortunately I don't know of ANY software that has implemented it yet (not that I've looked, but I wouldn't expect any to have already implemented it within a week of Zambezi's launch).

If you're just going to bash, please don't post. Discussion is welcome.
    
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post #44 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy MG View Post
How much less power do 1134 and 1135 chips use than 1137 chips?
What doesn't make sense to me is,why AMD is making a new revision,but not fixing the cache problems?
It is the flaw of write through cache the only way to fix it is a new architecture
Write Back and Lower Latency cache

1134 and 1135 consume up to 80-100 watts less making it better than the Nehalems and Westmeres clock to clock after 4.5GHz

Hopefully they have fixed it in 1138/1139/1140/1141 which will be the November shipment
(weekly tweaking FTW?!)
Edited by Seronx - 10/14/11 at 11:35pm
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post #45 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy MG View Post

Automated design or hand crafted shouldn't make a difference.
That article's already been shot down by Tator Tot anyways.

Anyways, why is it really a huge deal if Bulldozer sucks? Piledriver's coming for AM3+, so if you don't want to sidegrade to Bulldozer, hold onto your cash for a bit and get a Piledriver.

Piledriver will appear in Trinity before the end of 1H 2012, so if the actual "enhanced bulldozer" on the AM3+ socket isn't out by then, we'll have a good glimpse as to how Piledriver performs.
Edited by Homeles - 10/14/11 at 11:44pm
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post #46 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by mad0314 View Post
Ive seen 2 people that have said the opposite based on personal experience. Do you have personal experience? Im not attacking you, I would really like to know.

Also, we are NOT talking about excuses. We are listing reasons. There is no excuse for releasing a product that wasn't ready.

And software DOES have an impact on its performance, specifically FP heavy work. If the FPU is what is holding performance back in a certain task, using XOP or FMA4 could help reduce that limit, but unfortunately I don't know of ANY software that has implemented it yet (not that I've looked, but I wouldn't expect any to have already implemented it within a week of Zambezi's launch).

If you're just going to bash, please don't post. Discussion is welcome.
I'm just agreeing with those who said it probably doesn't make any difference whether the CPU is hand crafted or not,Intel has been using automated designs for a while now. But then again,with BD being a unique design,I assume it could have turned out better hand crafted.

I am not ruling out anything to be an excuse yet,software optimizations can have a huge impact on a CPU's performance,however FMA4 will probably end up useless like AVX,unless AMD pushes for driver & software code updates. It is really disappointing that AMD doesn't have everything together before launch. A lot of damage has already been done to the FX name due to lack of software support,bad BIOS,motherboards not giving consistent performance,CPU's having high power draw,etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seronx View Post
It is the flaw of write through cache the only way to fix it is a new architecture
Write Back and Lower Latency cache

1134 and 1135 consume up to 80-100 watts less making it better than the Nehalems and Westmeres clock to clock after 4.5GHz

Hopefully they have fixed it in 1138/1139/1140/1141 which will be the November shipment
(weekly tweaking FTW?!)
The latency can be slightly helped by setting the stock CPU/NB higher,or perhaps there is a way of disabling modules so the cache functions better.
The FX 8150 at around 4.5-5Ghz consumes over 500 watts of power from the wall,a 80-100 watt drop would be a large improvement over the 1137 shipment...I wonder if Tankguys will have new 1138-1141 FX chips.
A tweak every week? Wow,the engineers are really working hard to do what they can. New CEO FTW.
Edited by Heavy MG - 10/14/11 at 11:55pm
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post #47 of 55
Is this obsessive compulsive desire for secrecy when designing a chip leading to software developers not staying ahead of the curve? Seems like maybe transparency isn't such a bad thing.
post #48 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy MG View Post
I'm just agreeing with those who said it probably doesn't make any difference whether the CPU is hand crafted or not,Intel has been using automated designs for a while now. But then again,with BD being a unique design,I assume it could have turned out better hand crafted.

I am not ruling out anything to be an excuse yet,software optimizations can have a huge impact on a CPU's performance,however FMA4 will probably end up useless like AVX,unless AMD pushes for driver & software code updates. It is really disappointing that AMD doesn't have everything together before launch. A lot of damage has already been done to the FX name due to lack of software support,bad BIOS,motherboards not giving consistent performance,CPU's having high power draw,etc.

The latency can be slightly helped by setting the stock CPU/NB higher,or perhaps there is a way of disabling modules so the cache functions better.
The FX 8150 at around 4.5-5Ghz consumes over 500 watts of power from the wall,a 80-100 watt drop would be a large improvement over the 1137 shipment...I wonder if Tankguys will have new 1138-1141 FX chips.
A tweak every week? Wow,the engineers are really working hard to do what they can. New CEO FTW.
Really? I thought Intel still hand crafted them. Any source?

I agree with the rest, though. AMD has nowhere near the influence that Intel has, but come on... sending out your chip to be reviewed with a board that has a 30%+ RMA rate? Jeez get your act together... As far as the software optimization goes, we have seen potentially usefull code fade into the shadows in the past. Im not saying that performance will go up once they implement it, Im saying performance should go up IF they implement it.

Well disabling individual integer cores does have a huge impact on IPC. Also, there were some interesting findings in one of the Zambezi overclocking threads (here).

I also do NOT see why on Earth they would bring back the FX name unless they were 100% sure it could at least match the performance of Intel's top chips in the MAJORITY of benchmarks, not beat it in one, match it in a few and get demolished in half.
    
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post #49 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by mad0314 View Post
Really? I thought Intel still hand crafted them. Any source?

I agree with the rest, though. AMD has nowhere near the influence that Intel has, but come on... sending out your chip to be reviewed with a board that has a 30%+ RMA rate? Jeez get your act together... As far as the software optimization goes, we have seen potentially usefull code fade into the shadows in the past. Im not saying that performance will go up once they implement it, Im saying performance should go up IF they implement it.
I also do NOT see why on Earth they would bring back the FX name unless they were 100% sure it could at least match the performance of Intel's top chips in the MAJORITY of benchmarks, not beat it in one, match it in a few and get demolished in half.
most demolishes came from asus board reveiws and literally the numbers are all over the place some beating the i5 some beating the i7. and other totally flopped numbers.
I believe intel hand crafts the first architectures and then has it copied in process.

if it's automated the reality is that once it is perfected there should be almost no difference in performance, hand crafting could lead to more inconsistencies and performance I believe would be all over the place as the human making that chip would be more inconsistent than a machine.
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post #50 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy MG View Post
The latency can be slightly helped by setting the stock CPU/NB higher,or perhaps there is a way of disabling modules so the cache functions better.
The FX 8150 at around 4.5-5Ghz consumes over 500 watts of power from the wall,a 80-100 watt drop would be a large improvement over the 1137 shipment...I wonder if Tankguys will have new 1138-1141 FX chips.
A tweak every week? Wow,the engineers are really working hard to do what they can. New CEO FTW.
The latency drops are more new stepping(B3) and new design(Vishera)

500 Watts from the one what type of Power supply? 500 x 90%(80 Plus Platinum avg) => The Computer actually needing 450 Watts but that is besides the point

The tweaks every week are minor:
Improves power consumption
Improves overall stability
Improves overclock ability
The new stepping every three months are major:
Improves performance
Improves stability
Improves max stock clock rate
The new design every year are gigantic:
Performance increase is relatively unknown till the new design is talked about

If I was a consumer I would never buy the B2 stepping and wait for the B3 stepping as all the fixes from the previous 15 weeks will always be in the B3 stepping
Edited by Seronx - 10/15/11 at 1:28am
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