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Asus Crosshair V formula board may have hampered Bulldozer - Page 33

post #321 of 365
Quote:
Originally Posted by HMBR View Post
this thread is amazing,
a lot of desperate people trying to find something to not accept the obvious,
using high settings game tests with negligible difference, clearly caused by the VGA being the limiting factor as proof of something (forgetting that much cheaper CPUs can achieve that), handpicking reviews (some very poorly made I must say) to prove that there is something wrong with many others.... sad...
Actually, the benching we've done in-house did show some very bad scenarios in games, but generally the performance was right where it should be for the price.

The power consumption however, is a different story. it's not uncommon to at 50W or 100W extra for the use of an Asus board versus that of an other brand.

Graphics performance with an AMD graphics card is better than the same card on an Intel board and a BD can actually provide beter results in games/benchmarks than a i7-2600K. it just seems AMD didn't think this launch out quite as well.
post #322 of 365
Quote:
Originally Posted by neliz View Post
Actually, the benching we've done in-house did show some very bad scenarios in games, but generally the performance was right where it should be for the price.

The power consumption however, is a different story. it's not uncommon to at 50W or 100W extra for the use of an Asus board versus that of an other brand.

Graphics performance with an AMD graphics card is better than the same card on an Intel board and a BD can actually provide beter results in games/benchmarks than a i7-2600K. it just seems AMD didn't think this launch out quite as well.
the performance is where it should in which scenarios? in some heavily multi threaded file compression, rendering and all I agree, is mostly above the 2500k, on many less threaded softwares it's much worse,
as for gaming, on CPU limited gaming all I saw was big gap in favor of the 2500k, so the price is correct depending on the application, but in general is a less competitive product than the 2500k and uses more power,

as for higher performance with AMD cards!? I see tests where this is not the case!? xbitlabs and others,

on GPU limited tests is quite common to see the FX and any other CPU with basically the same result, with some very small variation... if one CPU is 1-3% faster than the other on this cases, it's very irrelevant and many times hard to explain, but when you drop a CPU limited case we are talking about huge differences (more relevant!), and there is a clear winner,

I found very disappointing the way some reviews present you with gaming tests, when they ONLY compare a 2600k to the FX, on a clearly GPU bottlenecked test, IF your intention is to show that the FX is enough to match the other CPU at this case, OK, but then you should also show how other CPUs do in this case, in most cases I'm sure all the other PII X4s, i3s would be very close indeed.
if you want to present the FX as a gaming option, please test it in more situations and games, lowering the resolution here and there is also a fair way to simulate a faster graphics card, and valid to compare CPUs.

comparing CPUs on games at 2560x1600 with the VGA struggling to keep 20fps is ridiculous, it says nothing that is not already known,

what is the point of the FX keeping up with any CPU in these conditions, if a cheaper 2500k can achieve the same there and a much higher result in other games for less money?!

the FX 8150 can be a good option for some cases, but it's far from the logic choice for gaming,

as for the Asus MB, seriously?
all the test I checked under similar conditions showed the same performance,
please, don't compare different tests from different reviews to say something is wrong with the one that doesn't suit your expectations... and please stop using tests that only show the limit of the VGA performance, without considering how the i3, X4 955, i3 2300 and others perform there, and don"t give so much attention to 1-3% of variation, when in other cases you can see as much as 40% or more for the other side..

in my humble opinion the FX 8150 needs to be priced slightly more aggressively, for the normal desktop workload the advantages over the 2500k are to small to justify a higher price,
Edited by HMBR - 10/16/11 at 1:25am
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post #323 of 365
prices will settle going down after a couple weeks, they are always set higher at launch then they are further down the path.
I would expect a 8150 to drop to the 200-220 mark here shortly.
and well phenoms will be probably go on clearance sale all for pennies on the dollar.
so i will also be building my sons computers with those which will suit just fine for gaming for them.
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post #324 of 365
Quote:
Originally Posted by JUGGERNAUTXTR View Post
prices will settle going down after a couple weeks, they are always set higher at launch then they are further down the path.
I would expect a 8150 to drop to the 200-220 mark here shortly.
and well phenoms will be probably go on clearance sale all for pennies on the dollar.
so i will also be building my sons computers with those which will suit just fine for gaming for them.
Phenoms are superior to 8150 for games and its cheaper too.
post #325 of 365
Even if the mobos are the issue here, the power consumption of the Sandy Bridge chips has spoilt us too much. The power consumption of the FX chips using the same manufacturing method is just unacceptable.
    
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post #326 of 365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckclc View Post
ASRock bringing it. The CHV has only 8+2. Too bad its all for not.
That 8+2 =16+4 gigabyte since asus stopped when VRMs got into parallel processing (unlike AMD lol)

Actually I just reviewed a Gigabyte UD5 990FX and per the intersil VRM cip they used, its a 6 phase parallel processor, meaning its 5 (10 parallel) for CPU and 1 (2 parallel for NB)

So yes ASUS wins.
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post #327 of 365
Thanks for clearing that. I really see no need to blame a board for poor performance. As for Vdroop, use the right settings and you can get it going right for you. I have used a lot of MSI and giga in the past and seen massive amounts of V droop on them as well.

It happens on each and every board and the only thing different between boards is how much you can control it.

I would suggest you go take a look at some of the reviews of the Giga by individual users and you will find almost all of them complaining about v droop issues.

Sorry, but I just dont see a board being the issue with BD's performance. Yes, there is usually a small variance in performance between different boards by different manufacturers, but like I said, the difference is too small to make any difference.

Case in example, the MSI GD70 790FX used to clock a bit better than a 790 FX CH III, but the reuslts in various benchmarks even at slightly higher clocks was slightly worse than in the CH III. I am talking about maybe 10-25 mhz here. And maybe another 10-15 mhz ram clocks. The ram would run at higher speeds on the MSI board, but it was not as efficient.

Anyway, I see a lot of guys on other forums running the CH V under LN2/DI, without any issues. Goes to show that the VRM section is quite solid.

BTW, I have been an AMD fan and user for the last 11-12 years or so and I hate to admit it, but BD is not performing as it should due to a lot of variables, but all of them seem to point back to AMD. A board, or MS, or any other company cannot be blamed for BD's performance. I am extremly disappointed at this point of time, specially with the power draw...and I guess if not for the power draw, I would probably have snapped one up pretty quickly. Having a 1090T clocked at 4ghz, with CnQ running, I just dont see the value in upgrading right now. I hope the 8170 is much better and solves some of the current issues....
Edited by mav2000 - 10/16/11 at 11:41pm
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post #328 of 365
you could always jump the fence and defect from the red nation.
    
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post #329 of 365
Quote:
Originally Posted by JUGGERNAUTXTR View Post
AMd has needed a new socket since phenom in my opinion, FM2 already has rumors it's gonna be BGA(ball grid array)yeah for us.
but serious note this socket and the backwards compatibility crowd has been doing more to hamper a new socket and a huge increase in board to CPU communication than anything, I would alsmost bet if someone learned to switch the socket form on chips we'd see bigger improvements in speed.
Rumor, on Q2 2012 FM2 so called Komodo, when Trinity will be combined with BD. Correct me if wrong
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post #330 of 365
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HMBR View Post
this thread is amazing,
a lot of desperate people trying to find something to not accept the obvious,
using high settings game tests with negligible difference, clearly caused by the VGA being the limiting factor as proof of something (forgetting that much cheaper CPUs can achieve that), handpicking reviews (some very poorly made I must say) to prove that there is something wrong with many others.... sad...
that kind of approaches are devoid of ration and logic.

this cpu is NOT SUPPOSED TO COMPETE WITH 2600 IN THE FIRST PLACE.

the company placed it precisely in between 2600 and 2500, explicitly, officially.

amd has never misplaced their products' performance. whichever chip they put on market was exactly performing in the place it has performed.

these intel people and some amd fans are talking as if it has been a 'failure' because it didnt beat 2600 in EVERY way. it seems as if both amd fans and intel fans have come to an agreement as if the chip was supposed to beat 2600, and everyone is talking over that.

you know what - it was not to beat 2600 in the first place ! i dont know how many more this can be iterated.

this seems to be a reflection of the question of whether amd being able to put an infrastructure that can beat sandy bridges intel has. it is a valid question, but the answer is not a valid answer.

this is a new infrastructure. and even in its release state, not even FIRST revision, it is coping up with the top chip of intel, whereas it should NOT have been able to do it, as per company's predictions and placement.

it wont be more than 1 year before new versions of this chip come out, without amd needing to do any research. what was behind the bulldozer effort, was exactly THAT -> adding modules to a cpu to increase its core count, without needing extra r/d. and so far it seems to have succeeded.

then you can expect 2600 to be beaten by the 12-20 core dozers that are to come next year, soundly. im not even talking about trinity route.

AND if you go the route of arguing that intel will put its own new generation then, yeah - and even if intel is able to do that, and they can beat the dozers of that pardicular time, it will just take 1-1.5 years for the amd chips to catch on to that new generation by intel - by slapping extra cores/modules, without needing research.

and ANYthing that increases the performance of this infrastructure, from revisions to factories' chip cutting process getting better to optimized software becoming available, will just scale with the number of cores/modules this infrastructure has.

noone should be an idiot, and come up arguing against how the infrastructures evolve in i.t. because doing so, requires stupidity to the extent of forgetting how badly screwed some of the new architectures intel itself put forth. OR, how microsoft got from vista to win7. (they are basically same underneath).

this is not a new cpu. this is a new infrastructure.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jackeyjoe View Post
And we infract them for it, and after a few they get banned. Simple as that
however not after causing closing of threads people are interested in. they should get their infractions and bans without them being able to succeed in getting threads locked.
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