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Some console gamers like less accurate controls? - Page 11

post #101 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by MooCwzRck View Post
I wish someone would make a set-up that shot what you looked at, or had a touch screen where it just shot bullets at everything you touched on the screen. I mean, the more accurate you can get with it, the better, right? That's whats important, not having a fairness or balance to the game, but being as accurate as possible, right? When those inputs come into existence, I wonder what the mouse and keyboard people will be saying.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a console fanatic, I love my PC, but I love my consoles as well. I am equally as competitive on any platform. I recognize that the mouse and keyboard are more accurate, but that isn't why I love PC gaming. I would love PC gaming just as much if everyone played on a controller.

no, what we need are motion sensor and sensor guns for FPS games, put out the same kit for console and PC, and we'll see who owns face.
post #102 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by MooCwzRck View Post
I wish someone would make a set-up that shot what you looked at, or had a touch screen where it just shot bullets at everything you touched on the screen. I mean, the more accurate you can get with it, the better, right? That's whats important, not having a fairness or balance to the game, but being as accurate as possible, right? When those inputs come into existence, I wonder what the mouse and keyboard people will be saying.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a console fanatic, I love my PC, but I love my consoles as well. I am equally as competitive on any platform. I recognize that the mouse and keyboard are more accurate, but that isn't why I love PC gaming. I would love PC gaming just as much if everyone played on a controller.
This is actually a good point and interesting. However touch screens are already greatly inferior to mouse/keyboard as there is nowhere near as much precision and speed. Since KB/M is used for general computer use everyone already have a head start on computer use, even people who used typewriters in the 50's.

However it is always possible to make the way we interface with our devices faster or more accurate. Macro keys and buttons on mice have been added and are controversial. In SC2 all competitors are not allowed to use macros. Each button press much only be one action. The reason this is, is because if you have things that are relatively automated then player skill isn't the deciding factor in games. Why be faster if you can have a macro key that builds workers in one hit?

So just as there are restrictions in sports in the interest of competition and fairness there will always be certain limitations placed on equipment. However these rules are designed to allow personal ability and skill to trump gadgets. A controller severely limits a players skill to the point where the best console player is merely on par with an average KB/M user. Console gamers SHOULD be enrage they forced to use controllers.

A mouse and keyboard has limits but it is fair to say that no human has reached the limits of a mouse and keyboard since in FPS games people usually use low sensitivity because they cant be accurate with high sensitivity (except quake but thats a different type of FPS than most others but still skill based).

We have 5600DPI mice and no one is able to take advantage of that. We have mechanical keyboard with brown switches for RTS to maximize APM. But is it possible to completely utilize a keyboard with one hand? QWERTY was actually designed to slow typists down so the typewriter hammers wouldnt get stuck, but this doesn't really apply to gaming.

So basically KB/M takes humans abilities to their limits and a human is unable to perfect their use. There are some optimizations that can be made obviously such as those macro keys but take away from player skill, which is why MMO players have tons of macros so they dont have to be fast or do repetitive tasks (except PvP). KB/M is the gold standard atm, and I doubt it will change soon because of how widespread it is.
post #103 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifeshield View Post
Regardless of what anyone thinks of it, MLG is a pretty established E-sport organization, which has been televised, with some very dedicated players from across multiple platforms, mostly console (but including PC). I'm not talking the little whiny teenagers who run their mouth off, screaming MLG at every corner in Call of Duty, I'm talking high scale competitive gaming. If you're really into the competitive scene then you should already know this though.

Don't even get me started on fighting game circuits (EVO), or PES/FIFA tournament players (try playing that with keyboard and mouse, haha) aswell. They have some insanely dedicated players.

These people are pretty dedicated to what they do, if they weren't they wouldn't be pro gamers earning money from what they do via winnings and sponsorships.

Please don't act like PC is, or even should be, the be all and end all of competitive gaming over one crowd seemingly being more dedicated than another. It's probably the most ignorant statement about competitive gaming one can make.
Well Consoles ruin gaming in general but not E-sports. There are a few E-sports titles on consoles but generally PC is the platform for it except fighting games (which I have zero interest in). I know there are dedicated players, but they dont make much, it isnt that popular, and its nowhere near the level of regular sports. If you look at Starcraft in Korea thats where we need to be headed.
post #104 of 120
Im looking forward to the days we can battle each other cross platforms to put some of these arguments to bed. I have a PS3 and my Rig. I prefer my rig btw.
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post #105 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ploppytheman View Post
Well Consoles ruin gaming in general but not E-sports.
How can they ruin gaming but not ruin e-sports?


Quote:
There are a few E-sports titles on consoles but generally PC is the platform for it except fighting games (which I have zero interest in).
A few?

The entire Halo franchise, Rainbow 6 Vegas 1 & 2, Gears of War 2 & 3, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 1 & 2, Super Smash Bros, Super Smash Bros Brawl, Shadowrun, the Tekken franchise, the entire Street Fighter franchise, the entire FIFA franchise, the entire PES franchise, Marvel vs Capcom, the Virtua Fighter franchise.

Would you like me to continue?

You cannot discount fighting games from this either, regardless of your interest they are still a viable competitive genre. I have no interest in RTS but I appreciate their value to competitive gaming, especially Starcraft.


Quote:
I know there are dedicated players, but they dont make much, it isnt that popular, and its nowhere near the level of regular sports.
What? :O

Quote:
Major League Gaming, one of the field's top sanctioning bodies, holds tournaments in cities across the country. The company has more than 125 players signed to management deals. Top players can earn more than $80,000 a year, plus outside sponsorship money, says an MLG spokeswoman. The average pay is in the $20,000 to $30,000 range.
That was in regards to Halo 3 players.

They were making more than I earn in a year and then some. For playing console games.

I would also say MLG Halo games, among others, being televised on ESPN is enough to consider console games popular.

I think you want competitive gaming to be on the same level in the rest of the world as it is in Korea. If you truly want that then limiting it to only one platform is not the way forward for success, especially given the popularity of other platforms in comparison. That's just another person looking for a way to get one over on consoles rather than truly evolve gaming to a higher professional standard.

That comes from someone who has gamed competitively on consoles (Rainbow 6 Vegas, R5 EU Ladder) and PC (Guild Wars, R32 GvG Silver Guild). Someone who put alot of time and effort back then to truly be as good as I could be, on each game, on each platform respectively.

Quote:
If you look at Starcraft in Korea thats where we need to be headed.
No, we don't. There's being dedicated and gaining popularity, and there's being obsessed. Korea are obsessed. Regardless of my personal opinion of that however, you don't need a control pad or a keyboard and mouse for that type of dedication. The control periphiral makes no difference to ones dedication to gaming whatsoever. Dedication is a mindset, not an ability.
Edited by Lifeshield - 10/14/11 at 11:13am
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post #106 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Narzon View Post
Actually, the discussion to this point was about controller accuracy.
Regardless, cost has nothing to do with gaming experience? Really?
So if a kid can't afford to play games because of their cost, that has nothing to do with his "gaming experience"?
Why do you insist on pretending that cost is ever irrelevant? It's not.
*sigh* There's one in every crowd. If he can afford neither, his game experience is irrelevant, because he doesn't have one to discuss. I can't afford a frigging space shuttle. Does that mean my space travel experience is poor?

Play a game on the PC. Then play the same game on XBox 360. Compare the gaming experiences between the two.

Are you just *trying* be obtuse about this??
post #107 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by OverSightX View Post
Im looking forward to the days we can battle each other cross platforms to put some of these arguments to bed. I have a PS3 and my Rig. I prefer my rig btw.
You'll still have the arguments, because that can't happen without PC players' control mechanisms will be adjusted down to be consistent with console game controllers. This has already been done and admitted to by developers in the past with cross-platform shooters.
post #108 of 120
..Deep breath


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ploppytheman View Post
I was mocking you.
Neat.
Quote:
So because I want gaming to become accepted and be a sport I have a massive ego. What did you watch an episode of House and now you think ur a genius and can read people? Get over yourself. Your obviously extremely insecure and make random comments.
No, it's not because you want gaming to be accepted, it's because you think people who play games casually should stop playing games casually to fit your agenda. You clearly have a massive ego since you think your goal is so important that it outshines the opinions of the majority of people, and that even though you want people to stop doing what they love, it's for their own good. It's a logical fallacy in which you transpose your own selfish desires onto other people, as if the majority is selfish for not doing what you want.

Quote:
And I dont care what people think at all, because then I'd be weak minded like you.
Oh, so you'll let people do what they want in their own time however they want to do it?
Quote:
However I do care about the consequences of what people think which I why I am so adamant about making games into actual art/sport and not just a "game" like you said.
Oh, nevermind. You don't care what people think, but you care about the consequences of what they think. Kind of like how I don't care about murder, only the consequence of murder. Totally not the same thing.

Quote:
I want them to be sports.
Power to you. MLG is that way >

Quote:
I don't want being a gamer being associated with people who play WoW and are immature idiots feeding their e-peen with achievements and easy games.
No, of course. You want to be associated with people who play different video games feeding their e-peen with computer skills and "hard" games. Again, love the implication that everyone who plays WoW is an "immature idiot". How dare they enjoy doing things that aren't important to you! Speaking of which, we should get the government to euthanize stamp collectors and model builders. I mean after all, if you're doing things to be "skilled", why else would you do them? Certainly not fun. Fun is a useless waste of time reserved for weak-minded dolts and immature idiots!
[/quote]
Quote:
Your obviously too selfish to allow there to be a pro scene because in sports there is pro and casual and all inbetwen.
..whaa
I don't recall every arguing that MLG and E-sports shouldn't exist. You're the only one calling for a removal of people doing what they wanted. You clearly aren't fine with the idea of casual play.

Quote:
The difference is since you cant you dont want anyone else to.
Yep, again, that's why I said "MLG PLAYERS SHOULDNT BE ALLOWED!!" remember? Geesh, I hope everyone else saw me say that.

Quote:
Thats selfish.
Yes, it is selfish that I allow people to do whatever they want. Again, transposed selfishness, a fallacy.
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I want my easy games with achievements and generic simple mechanics and grinding.
If you or anyone else wants that, more power to them.

Quote:
No one can play competition because my ego cant handle losing.
For the third time, no one said anything about preventing competition. If people want to be competitive, LET THEM.

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And I dont think I deserve anything unless I earn it by my skill and hard work.
Cool. So get a job, work for money, use money to buy games, enjoy games. Why do games need to have hard work? Do you refuse to watch television without bench-pressing at the same time?

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Just like in sports or w/e else if you work hard and dedicate yourself you should be rewarded.
Yep. You should enter e-sports competitions and win money. Which already is possible... point?

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I am happy when I see others win in tournaments and
I'm happy for people who win tournaments too.
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I am so happy that gaming is becoming a sport and that people are starting to not look down on all gamers
Hah, I'm sorry, I had to laugh. Are you implying that people who play video games for a living and enter tournaments get more respect from the public? What world are you living in? The vast majority of kids (at least in America) play video games of some sort, it's cultural norm. No one looks down on you when you mention that you play Battlefield or CoD or Halo. Tell someone you play video games for a profession, and they'll probably think you're a freak.

Quote:
are able to seperate casual/consoletards/MMO players from pro players and skill based games.
Loving all the attacks, keep 'em coming.

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It would be like lumping chess in with hungry hungry hippo.
Oh, good point! I guess that's why they banned hungry hungry hipp--- wait.


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Maybe competitive gaming should rename itself completely, I mean its called E-sports already but there needs to be a distinction
So there's already distinction but there needs to be a distinction. Ah, yes, I see.

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between dirty console gaming peasants and people who play competitive skill based games that require the dedication and skill of a real sport.
I have half a mind to think you're trolling now. When the last time you heard a tennis player refer to "dirty ping-pong peasants"? Some people find fun in hard work and dedication, some find fun in a leisurely entertaining activity. Hard to understand, I know, I'll go as slow as I can.

Quote:
I look to S Korea and see people playing 12hrs a day or more.
And then dying in game marathons and being ridiculed by the public.

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They hone their craft every day putting in tons of hours. They put their blood and sweat into the game for meager pay and live in relatively small apartments.
That's what happens when you decide that your sole profession is going to be playing video games that most people don't want to watch.

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They are awesome and far from selfish.
..Right? Are you implying that I called them selfish? Because... I didn't.

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I wish I was that dedicated. I wish in the USA people saw progamers as athletes like they do in S Korea.
Having events in stadiums with fireworks.
I wish America had more rave parties, I wish we had a healthcare system like Sweden, and I wish evolution was freely taught without sparking controversy in half the population. Unfortunate, but I'm not suggesting we kill them off.

Quote:
That is awesome, that is what gaming should be.
Here's the crucial part you keep forgetting:
"in my opinion".

What if someone else doesn't care about your "dream" of gaming? What if someone wants to play games once in a while to work off steam or relax, or just have some fun with friends? To you, they don't matter. You don't consider their opinion valid, you term them inferior, stupid, or dirty peasants. To you, they're just holding your dream back. Ever considered flipping the coin over? To them, you're killing their dreams of keeping games out of sports, of keeping them casual. If they're "dirty stupid consoletard peasants", you're an "arrogant selfish PC elitist". Have you not even the ability to empathize?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ploppytheman View Post
Hey you figured out 99% of single player games take zero skill and are a waste of time.
Yes, because mutliplayer games that take "skill" are less of a waste of time.
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Something is wrong with your posture or you have a physical anomaly or older injury. A normal healthy adult male should have zero strain playing PC as is evidenced by a billion skinny nerds who can play it.
What are you Doctor House? You're diagnosing him now?
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Im not forcing you to do anything but people need to be exposed to E-sports and understand the idea of E-athletes and how important it is for gamers in general.
+1 for the bolded irony.
I'm assuming my "gamers in general" you mean yourself and the tiny minority that agrees with you
Quote:
How would you like it if the thing you enjoyed most was being held back and/or destroyed by a bunch of feeble-minded dolts who don't even care they are destroying it?
You mean like people who are less intelligent than me hurting the human gene pool? I wouldn't care, because it's their right to live the life they want. I like the implication that people who play casually are "feeble-minded dolts", and that because they aren't furthering your agenda of making games "sports", they are "destroying" gaming.


Quote:
If you actually cared at all about games you would understand this. No one cares that you are bad or play single player, but it matters that the image of gamers is very negative in general and even people who game don't understand it.
If you didn't have a massive ego you would understand how selfish you are.
post #109 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasimojo View Post
*sigh* There's one in every crowd. If he can afford neither, his game experience is irrelevant, because he doesn't have one to discuss. I can't afford a frigging space shuttle. Does that mean my space travel experience is poor?

Play a game on the PC. Then play the same game on XBox 360. Compare the gaming experiences between the two.

Are you just *trying* be obtuse about this??
I didn't say he couldn't afford either, I said he's an average american teenager whose parents will only buy him a console. I'm well aware that given the choice between both, a PC wins in every category (barring exclusives), but I'm also aware that price is a very real factor to most gamers (who don't have a personal income).
post #110 of 120
How many buttons are on a controller?

On a keyboard, I have about 28 keys I can use. Plus 6 on the mouse.
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