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Why won't my Corsair CX430 PSU power my system but a different one will? - Page 3

post #21 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by TikTiki View Post
Oh God... JUST READ PEOPLE!

I would guess that you are building an HTPC/Home theater box...

If you have a digital PSU tester, plug it in and check the latency. If it's anything over 300 ms that might be the problem. I have seen some low-power PSU work fine in older systems and not booting in newer ones, yet the power requirement where the same. 1/3 of a second is a long time to compensate for power drop...

If you have a working PSU handy and it fits physically in your box, why not use it. Even if you plug a 1000W PSU in a 300W system, it won't use more electricity or generate more heat. the 500W will also give you a little headroom for some extra USB devices (each two plugs use 12W for USB2.0 and 24W for 3.0) or HDDs.

If you have a video capture card or TV Tuner, keep in mind that this will draw power from the ATX connector and might cause a sufficient drop for the VRM to shutdown (less voltage = more current = more heat = triggers safeties) when added to the HDDs spin-up and bad potential latency of the PSU.

I might be completely lost too, but I would start by checking what is the actuall difference between both PSUs.
When I do not know I admit it.I will admit that I have never before scene the term "latency" applied to a power supply.I certainly have scene it applied quite frequently to data transmission and devices that get in the way of throughput and slow things down but in what sense is latency being applied to a power supply in this paticular case? Do not interpet my question as anything more than a question.I certainly cannot remember our OCN power supply guru speak of latency in regards to a power supply spec, but perhaps it fits in somewhere. Perhaps you are speaking of some defect in the power supplies rectification ability,I just do not know.

I did do a google search and it is just not turning up latency as a power supply spec.Now we all know that a google search is not the be all and end all of technical searchs.My best bet is something to do with the rectification process.
Edited by PCCstudent - 10/15/11 at 2:39pm
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post #22 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCCstudent View Post
When I do not know I admit it.I will admit that I have never before scene the term "latency" applied to a power supply.I certainly have scene it applied quite frequently to data transmission and devices that get in the way of throughput and slow things down but in what sense is latency being applied to a power supply in this paticular case? Do not interpet my question as anything more than a question.I certainly cannot remember our OCN power supply guru speak of latency in regards to a power supply spec, but perhaps it fits in somewhere. Perhaps you are speaking of some defect in the power supplies rectification ability,I just do not know.
I've never heard of power supply "latency." Maybe he's talking about VREG. If the OP just has a basic system though VREG shouldn't be a issue at all.
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post #23 of 27
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the help guys. I'm just going to return it and get a different brand. I usually like corsair but I guess they dropped the ball on this one.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC
post #24 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCCstudent View Post
When I do not know I admit it.I will admit that I have never before scene the term "latency" applied to a power supply.I certainly have scene it applied quite frequently to data transmission and devices that get in the way of throughput and slow things down but in what sense is latency being applied to a power supply in this paticular case? Do not interpet my question as anything more than a question.I certainly cannot remember our OCN power supply guru speak of latency in regards to a power supply spec, but perhaps it fits in somewhere. Perhaps you are speaking of some defect in the power supplies rectification ability,I just do not know.

I did do a google search and it is just not turning up latency as a power supply spec.Now we all know that a google search is not the be all and end all of technical searchs.My best bet is something to do with the rectification process.
This review is for the Neo Eco 520C, but check the "Timing Tests" section here:
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=317192

Also ATX spec (links are in wikipedia article):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atx

It has to do with delays in powering on, signaling the power is good, and so on. I think. Not with rectification or performance while running.


I'd say this is kind of a rare issue with devices maybe not quite compliant with spec, or on the fringes. No motherboard manufacturer tests with every power supply available, and no power supply manufacturer tests with every motherboard in existence, so stuff happens?
Edited by mikeaj - 10/15/11 at 8:18pm
post #25 of 27
Corsair would be on this like a duck on a june bug if their 430W power supply was incompatible with that motherboard.I would be looking elsewhere for an explaination.

Think about it, a GigaByte board that is incompatible with a Corsair power supply, just would not be tolerated by either of the manufactures.
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post #26 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeaj View Post
This seems to be an issue with the CX430 V2 (maybe other CWT DSA too?). It's probably some timing incompatibility with the motherboard and power supply. Some motherboards are more picky than others, so certain combinations of motherboard and power supplies just don't work.

It may have to do with the power good signal specifically.

See discussion here:
http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8399
Hey, that's my thread!

klaxian, have you tested the CX430 on the machine that the OCZ came out of? It would be an interesting data point.
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post #27 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCCstudent View Post


When I do not know I admit it.I will admit that I have never before scene the term "latency" applied to a power supply.I certainly have scene it applied quite frequently to data transmission and devices that get in the way of throughput and slow things down but in what sense is latency being applied to a power supply in this paticular case? Do not interpet my question as anything more than a question.I certainly cannot remember our OCN power supply guru speak of latency in regards to a power supply spec, but perhaps it fits in somewhere. Perhaps you are speaking of some defect in the power supplies rectification ability,I just do not know.

I did do a google search and it is just not turning up latency as a power supply spec.Now we all know that a google search is not the be all and end all of technical searchs.My best bet is something to do with the rectification process.

No offence, I have an electronics background, so that is why I get it.

Basically, ATX PSUs are made of two parts:

An AC-DC converter
And a DC-DC step-down regulator

The reason we call this a switching PSU is exactly that. From the high voltage DC regulated section, the DC-DC converter is literally switching on-off-on very fast (typically 25kHz or above). Then there is a buffer circuitry (capacitors and coils).

As the system drains more power, the voltage needs to stay stable. That means that the switching PWM (pulse width modulation, basically the ratio on/off) has to change to compensate.

Now, motherboard VRMs have a lot of sensors to make sure the voltage and current going to the PC is the correct one. Theses sensors are made to react in a mater of milliseconds, as the CPU and basically anything on the PC is very sensitive to over-voltage/over-current.

If the PSU cannot adjust fast enough (say 300ms, which is REALLY bad... a good PSU should be under 25ms), the VRMs and motherboard sensors detect an overcurrent just like there was a thunderstorm or a PSU failure. They will stop the PSU to protect the sensitive parts. In this case, when everything tries to start at the same time, there is a huge demand for current. That in turn causes the voltage on all rails of the PSU to drop a little. And because the PSU takes a long time to react, the current in the parts spikes (Ohm's law... voltage drop = current spike for the same load). That causes a lot more heat in small micro parts and can burn-out anything on the board.

Now, most components won't flash-melt because they are built to dissipate a given maximum power in heat over time (TDP.... that is a know value in CPU specs). But most small parts, especially the MOSFETs in the VRMs are way more sensitive and can only dissipate under 1W. If you push 2-3W in there, the temperature will double ever time value... that is bad for the parts. Common electronic parts have a max operating temperature of 75c, with military-grade/medical-grade usually going up to 175c (145c typical).


You can get a very similar behavior with a dead PSU. When you completely drain the power (remove power cord and hold power button 10 seconds), at the first try all the system fans will "kick" but nothing more. Any subsequent attempt won't do anything. That is the VRMs/BIOS blocking the PSU to prevent damage.
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