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Question on Bulldozer

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
Just to be sure of what I've read.
Intel double some of the components on each processors of the CPU so it can do 2 threads at the same time (hypertheading) but AMD do the same thing but sell the CPU not as a 4 core but a 8 and says they REMOVE some components, preventing Intel from suing AMD?
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post #2 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddyall View Post
Just to be sure of what I've read.
Intel double some of the components on each processors of the CPU so it can do 2 threads at the same time (hypertheading) but AMD do the same thing but sell the CPU not as a 4 core but a 8 and says they REMOVE some components, preventing Intel from suing AMD?
not really
post #3 of 25
I thought part of the settlement was that they where going to share chip technology anyway.
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post #4 of 25
What? AMD's top BD has 8 actual physical cores. Intels quads with hyper threading have 4 physical cores. Completely different things.
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post #5 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skripka View Post
What? AMD's top BD has 8 actual physical cores. Intels quads with hyper threading have 4 physical cores. Completely different things.
I thought it had 8 Physical cores but 4 FPU's aka 1 per 2 cores. Which is what makes it run slow.
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post #6 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckaroo View Post
I thought part of the settlement was that they where going to share chip technology anyway.
I didn't know of any agreement between Intel and AMD.
Maybe Intel let them use hyperthreading, but AMD changes the name and the explication.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skripka View Post
What? AMD's top BD has 8 actual physical cores. Intels quads with hyper threading have 4 physical cores. Completely different things.
That's what I'm saying, it not an actual 8 physical core, it's a hyperthreaded 4 core.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiftstealth View Post
I thought it had 8 Physical cores but 4 FPU's aka 1 per 2 cores. Which is what makes it run slow.
If you compare a quad core with a hyperthreaded dual core the quad core will beat the dual core. So since they say Bulldozer have a 8 core, it normal not as good at what you could expect.

And please, I'm looking for a serious discussion, that's why I came here.
I don't want to speak to fan boy, just people who knows computer components.
Edited by Eddyall - 10/15/11 at 5:10pm
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post #7 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddyall View Post
I didn't know of any agreement between Intel and AMD.
Maybe Intel let them use hyperthreading, but AMD changes the name and the explication.



That's what I'm saying, it not an actual 8 physical core, it's a hyperthreaded 4 core.



If you compare a quad core with a hyperthreaded dual core the quad core will beat the dual core. So since they say Bulldozer have a 8 core, it normal not as good at what you could expect.

And please, I'm looking for a serious discussion, that's why I came here.
I don't want to speak to fan boy, just people who knows computer components.
It is NOT hyperthreading.

Let me quote an AMD engineer who used to post here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JF-AMD

There are some inaccuracies in your assessment.

First, there is one FP unit per module. This can be seperated into 2 FMACs for running most applications so you end up with a 1:1 ratio of integer and FP on a core.

This is not "hardware hyperthreading". People who describe it as such generally don't understand exactly what we are doing or how it varies. In hyperthreading there is one scheduler that presents 2 virtual cores, essentially giving two entry points into a single set of integer pipelines. If one thread is consuming 100% (or probably 90%) of the physical integer pipeline on the core, then the other thread sits idle essentially.

A module has 2 integer units, a share FP that can act as 2 FP units, a single FP scheduler (that is how you can share 2) and 2 integer schedulers. A module can handle 2 unique threads at the same time. If one is at 100% pipeline utilizaiton the other can also be at 100% utilization.

To call it hyperthreading is really wrong, a better description is "modular computing". The system, the OS and the apps will see cores as physical cores because that is what they are.

And dragonsmp, the FP is very different. In current products it is an FPU, for BD they are FMACs and can support a far wider range of instructions.
http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/11...type-core.html
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post #8 of 25
AFAIK, 1 core = 1 ALU ( 1 integer core, that can do arithmetic calculation).

Modern CPU have within each x86 core 1 ALU and 1 FPU( floating point unit).

Back on the day the processor had only ALU cores, and FPU was added separetly, on the motherboard(just like a video card, but instead a FPU). But soon ALU and FPU were joined in the same space, however what defines a core its the ALU, the integer unit.

Bulldozer has 4 modules, let's say 4 big cores, but each bulldozer core, has 2 integer units instead of 1. Thats why Bulldozer 4Module/8Core is labeled like that, because it has 8 interger cores but "only" 4 FPU.

Hyperthread doesnt double anything, it just has some extra stuff that, enable it to run 2 thread in each core, but its not 2 threads at the same time, this it how it works;

Lets say we have 1 core and 2 threads(thread 'a' and thread 'b') to be run, what hyperthread does is, it starts working on the thread 'a', but when thread 'a' stops running for some reason(waiting for data or whatever), it starts working on thread 'b', so the core it self is running all the time one thread, be it thread 'a' or thread 'b', hyperthread basically raises the efficiency not letting the core stay at idle mode waiting for resources to come to be processes.

BullDozer can actually run 8 threads at the same time, because it has 8 integer units/cores. But when it comes to Floating point operations, BD only has 4 FPU, thats why it looses to SB very often, because SB has better FPU , although they have each 4 FPU.
post #9 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick View Post
AFAIK, 1 core = 1 ALU ( 1 integer core, that can do arithmetic calculation).

Modern CPU have within each x86 core 1 ALU and 1 FPU( floating point unit).

Back on the day the processor had only ALU cores, and FPU was added separetly, on the motherboard(just like a video card, but instead a FPU). But soon ALU and FPU were joined in the same space, however what defines a core its the ALU, the integer unit.

Bulldozer has 4 modules, let's say 4 big cores, but each bulldozer core, has 2 integer units instead of 1. Thats why Bulldozer 4Module/8Core is labeled like that, because it has 8 interger cores but "only" 4 FPU.

Hyperthread doesnt double anything, it just has some extra stuff that, enable it to run 2 thread in each core, but its not 2 threads at the same time, this it how it works;

Lets say we have 1 core and 2 threads(thread 'a' and thread 'b') to be run, what hyperthread does is, it starts working on the thread 'a', but when thread 'a' stops running for some reason(waiting for data or whatever), it starts working on thread 'b', so the core it self is running all the time one thread, be it thread 'a' or thread 'b', hyperthread basically raises the efficiency not letting the core stay at idle mode waiting for resources to come to be processes.

BullDozer can actually run 8 threads at the same time, because it has 8 integer units/cores. But when it comes to Floating point operations, BD only has 4 FPU, thats why it looses to SB very often, because SB has better FPU , although they have each 4 FPU.
It has 8 128b fpu core that can be fused into 4 256b fpu cores.
post #10 of 25
Thread Starter 
Thanks, I see there's a small difference but a real 8 core would still be better right?

Edit: I only read JF-AMD post.
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