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[egmnow] Valve Talks Up Source Engine 2 - Page 21

post #201 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by sausageson View Post
When people use this argument for consoles they are sent packing by forum goers, I guess its only a valve defense.
People use the exact same argument for consoles? Most of what i just said has nothing to do with them. What about GPUs or Dx 11 has to do with consoles?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sausageson View Post
Ah so logical arguments only work for valve? if the same argument is tried for consoles it automatically becomes illogical? great good to know.
No, but nice attempt at a loaded question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by downlinx View Post
is this not the same thing that everyone went nuts over with activision saying they are not updating there engine too?
Not even close. Valve DOES update their engine, just not to the exact specification of some know-it-alls online. And, as we all know, what Valve lacks in graphics, it makes up for in storyline and gameplay. Activision meanwhile just changes character models, keeps the same textures, plugs in a slightly altered storyline and keeps the gameplay average and on-rails.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riou View Post
It depends who you are talking about. I have never read FunkDr railing against consoles.
Correct. I love the keyboard + mouse, mods and graphical improvements that PC gaming brings but I have too many fond memories from my console days to hate on them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
They update it, but realisticly they're are only so many bolt on's and add in's you can put in the engine before it starts to become inefficient. I'm fine with them not updating their engine as long as they stop charging $40-$50 for a game, when a lot of indie developers are matching/exceding the graphically fidelity and charging a lot less.
Well, source is designed to be added to so I don't think we'll have that problem for the next 2 years.

And what Valve lacks in graphics, they more than make up for in story and gameplay. I don't know too many indie devs that are putting out the same quality games as valve for half the price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fraudbrand View Post
So it's ok to bash console's for holding back technology but Valve is cool in sticking with an old and outdated engine that a 9800 GT can run flawlessly ? Don't get me wrong the Source engine still looks good and that has been Valve's plan to make an engine that they can continue to update and have the games looking good. I'm just shocked at the hypocrisy from some people.
There's 2 things wrong with your argument. 1st is the fact that i never bashed consoles for holding technology back b/c they actually don't. Consoles actually subsidize tech improvements. What's holding tech back right now are the current economic conditions. There are less people spending on GPUs and there are devs less willing to take a financial risk by spending millions required to use new tech.

2nd, You're comparing a single PC dev that has NEVER been about pushing boundaries so much as gameplay, to consoles which control something like 60% of the gaming market. Their spheres of influence negate your idea of hypocrisy.
Edited by FuNkDrSpOt - 10/17/11 at 10:36am
    
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post #202 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuNkDrSpOt View Post

Not even close. Valve DOES update their engine, just not to the exact specification of some know-it-alls online. And, as we all know, what Valve lacks in graphics, it makes up for in storyline and gameplay. Activision meanwhile just changes character models, keeps the same textures, plugs in a slightly altered storyline and keeps the gameplay average and on-rails.
thanks for clarifying for me.
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post #203 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by SchmoSalt View Post
Hammer is nearly identical to the one for HL1.
They dont need to change it, it has everything we need. Also terrain has been added to it since HL1 and there are a fair few changes other than that. (I've used the old Hammer and the new one)
    
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post #204 of 331
Just give me hl3 plz.
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post #205 of 331
The engine needs higher grade textures/mapping asap. Next upgrade to the engine I hope, they already updated the lightening, physics, and models.
post #206 of 331
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuNkDrSpOt View Post
1. 5-7% of PC gamers, which are around 1/3rd of all gamers, can use Dx 11. Of those 5%-7%, probably less than half of them can run a game that takes full use of Dx 11. So of the entire PC/Console game buying public, Dx 11 users are about 1%. An extra couple million to appease the 1% is a bit much right now.
I'm not sure where u get those numbers from but here's a source i find that's very relevant.

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/

see the % of DX11 cards owners on steam? 28.62% and is increasing. look at the owners of DX9 cards, 5.85% and decreasing. granted most people still own DX10 cards, but the number of DX11 capable GPUs out there is not as low as you may imagine.

now let's look at the number for DX11-capable OS.
http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/directx/
scroll all the way down you see that the number of people with vista and windows 7 (Both are DX11 capable) adds up to 79.12 %.

so most gamers on steam have DX11 capable OS and a large part of them have DX11 capable GPU. so yea your argument with made up numbers is pretty much out.
Edited by james8 - 10/17/11 at 4:24pm
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post #207 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by james8 View Post
I'm not sure where u get those numbers from but here's a source i find that's very relevant.

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/

see the % of DX11 cards owners on steam? 28.62% and is increasing. look at the owners of DX9 cards, 5.85% and decreasing. granted most people still own DX10 cards, but the number of DX11 capable GPUs out there is not as low as you may imagine.

now let's look at the number for DX11-capable OS.
http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/directx/
scroll all the way down you see that the number of people with vista and windows 7 (Both are DX11 capable) adds up to 79.12 %.

so most gamers on steam have DX11 capable OS and a large part of them have DX11 capable GPU. so yea your argument with made up numbers is pretty much out.
Excellent post.

/OT
Where in the world did he pull his numbers from? Thin air?
    
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post #208 of 331
I try not to judge, the Portal 2 source engine version looked great. So if they are going to continue to update, im fine with it. What they should do is update old games with the new engine, periodically.
post #209 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by james8 View Post
I'm not sure where u get those numbers from but here's a source i find that's very relevant.

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/

see the % of DX11 cards owners on steam? 28.62% and is increasing. look at the owners of DX9 cards, 5.85% and decreasing. granted most people still own DX10 cards, but the number of DX11 capable GPUs out there is not as low as you may imagine.
I'm estimating off of Steams numbers, the number of Dx 11 players WITH Dx 11 OS's. Even then, you can't seriously count anything below a 5850 as a REAL Dx 11 card. It might be Dx 11 compatable but I don't see how anything below a 5850 is ACTUALLY RUNNING Dx 11. Look at this list: ( http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/directx/ ) and take out all the Dx 10 and weak Dx 11 GPUs. That doesn't leave much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by james8 View Post
now let's look at the number for DX11-capable OS.
http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/directx/
scroll all the way down you see that the number of people with vista and windows 7 (Both are DX11 capable) adds up to 79.12 %.

most gamers on steam have DX11 capable OS and a large part of them have DX11 capable GPU[/SIZE][/B]. so yea your argument with made up numbers is pretty much out.
I don't make up numbers. Until I see this graph change, I'm of the impression that these stats have not changed significantly since May 2010. It was at 5% last year, probably 7% this year. I'd be surprised if it increased above 10% and that's including AMD <5850 and Nvidia <460


Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanrenolds08 View Post
Excellent post.

/OT
Where in the world did he pull his numbers from? Thin air?
No, i didn't.

Edited by FuNkDrSpOt - 10/17/11 at 5:56pm
    
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post #210 of 331
Thread Starter 
^fyi the most popular DX11 card is HD 5770, next to that GTX 460. those are below your specified cards and they are perfectly fine for DX11. not all DX11 games are metro 2033. civ 5 is a DX11 games and it runs fine in the above cards.

also that graph does not show enough data. windows 7 is not the only OS to support DX11. vista SP2 also support DX11. some of those that own DX11-GPU use vista. the graphs do not account for that.

also fyi it's October 2011. it's been almost 1.5 years since May 2010. do not be so naive as to think that hardware landscape do not change in such a long period of time. nvidia released a whole entire new series of cards in that timeframe.
so not only is that graph severely outdated, it does not represent the true numbers of gamers with DX11 GPU and DX11 OS
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