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[egmnow] Valve Talks Up Source Engine 2 - Page 23

post #221 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuNkDrSpOt;15349246 
All 3 of them or so? Remind me which A titles aren't Dx 9 please.
I suppose you don't know what growing means? The point is that developers are beginning to lose support of Dx9 and it will continue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuNkDrSpOt;15349246 
Then you weren't playing 1080p. I run a 5850 OC'd to 900/1200 and Metro 2033 is a slideshow when I throw a grenade. Crysis 2 is also sutter city when the dx 11 and high res textures are on.

So no, your 5770 doesn't cut it.
I also didn't know DX11 was an exclusive feature of resolutions at 1920x1080p. Please enlighten me as to how it isn't present at resolutions under that.
Edited by Banzai? - 10/17/11 at 8:38pm
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post #222 of 331
Thread Starter 
^yea i agree with this.
since when is 1080p a mandatory resolution? i mean it's the most popular sure, but who says he can't run the 5770 at like 1280x720p and maxes out metro 2033 easily?

besides the HD 5770 isn't designed for 1080p anyway. more for 1680x1050
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuNkDrSpOt;15349246 
Then you weren't playing 1080p. I run a 5850 OC'd to 900/1200 and Metro 2033 is a slideshow when I throw a grenade. Crysis 2 is also sutter city when the dx 11 and high res textures are on.

So no, your 5770 doesn't cut it.
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post #223 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banzai¥;15349398 
I suppose you don't know what growing means? The point is that developers are beginning to lose support of Dx9 and it will continue.


I also didn't know DX11 was an exclusive feature of resolutions at 1920x1080p. Please enlighten me as to how it isn't present at resolutions under that.

The only Dev's that are pushing DX11 are the ones that want to guarantee that their game remains inferior to the competition and has a small player base. There is no real reason to switch to W7 and DX11 when DX9 is nearly capable of everything that DX11 is.

There hasn't been a huge leap in graphics yet. The leap from HL1 to HL2 was huge and we haven't hit that big leap in graphical capability's yet to make people buy W7 and get a DX11 capable graphics card.
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post #224 of 331
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mwarren;15349617 
The only Dev's that are pushing DX11 are the ones that want to guarantee that their game remains inferior to the competition and has a small player base.

oh really. you wanna say that to DICE who's going to release Battlefield 3 with no support for DX9 and they recommends DX11?

also, is that why you're running dual core with 4000 series card and windows xp as well? rolleyes.gif (no offense to your system)
i've heard the "there's no reason to switch" many times before from the xp fanbois.
get real. the xp population is shrinking every month. windows 7 is now the de facto gamers' OS
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post #225 of 331
I think this company gone a bit defunked....
When are they going to make another Kings Quest or Space Quest, dam bring back the old school point and clickers will you....
post #226 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banzai¥;15349398 
I suppose you don't know what growing means? The point is that developers are beginning to lose support of Dx9 and it will continue.

Don't try to use 1 game as some huge trend that's taking over the gaming scene.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banzai¥;15349398 
I also didn't know DX11 was an exclusive feature of resolutions at 1920x1080p. Please enlighten me as to how it isn't present at resolutions under that.

1080p is the standard resolution right now. You know that, i know that, everyone knows that. If you're going to talk about what you can max out with your card, don't try to hide the resolution to make your point. That's like saying your $200 Sony receiver is the same as my $700 Onkyo because they both put out 100 watts per channel, of course hiding the fact that yours is rated at 1kHz and mine is rated at 20-20kHz.
Quote:
Originally Posted by james8;15349479 
^yea i agree with this.
since when is 1080p a mandatory resolution? i mean it's the most popular sure, but who says he can't run the 5770 at like 1280x720p and maxes out metro 2033 easily?

besides the HD 5770 isn't designed for 1080p anyway. more for 1680x1050

That's the point. 1080p is the most popular, by far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by james8;15349319 
yea well that's why we're still stuck with windows xp, 8800 GT, xbox 360s, ps3s, and lazy developers not wanting to invest in anything (such as the people who developed cod) to move gaming forward.

LoL. 'Lazy devs'. What an incredible dumbing down of a economic-based issue to one of simple laziness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by james8;15349319 
> most integrated gpu supports DX8 and actually runs quite well with that old technology. why don't we use it? heck why not even use/support DX7 so people with pentium 3 can run it? rolleyes.gif

Do you lead off your main points with fallacies often? Slippery slope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by james8;15349319 
I like to support developers that are brave enough to use new technology to move the industry forward.
Brave?! Lol this isn't a war. It's a financial decision that, if approached with your lack of logic, can bankrupt companies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by james8;15349319 
that is why i paid full price for Battlefield 3 (they completely ditched xp and dx9). I do not buy games that use old technology at full price; the lazy devs simply do not deserve the full amount. i usually wait for sales if those games are worth considering (portal 2 got for $15 instead of $50)

Gameplay>Graphics.

So while you continue to support this gaming generation's Michael Bay-like obsession with special effects, me and the real gamers will support game devs that focus on making good games.
Edited by FuNkDrSpOt - 10/17/11 at 9:50pm
    
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post #227 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman;15342368 
They update it, but realisticly they're are only so many bolt on's and add in's you can put in the engine before it starts to become inefficient. I'm fine with them not updating their engine as long as they stop charging $40-$50 for a game, when a lot of indie developers are matching/exceding the graphically fidelity and charging a lot less.

Actually they made their engine modular so they can completely rewrite certain sections as necessary.
It's like with the Linux kernel in a way.

And they may match or exceed the graphical fidelity, but do they do it on such crappy hardware that you can max out Valve games on? Usually not, unless they're actually using the source engine. wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by downlinx;15342436 
is this not the same thing that everyone went nuts over with activision saying they are not updating there engine too?

Read the topic.

Valve update their engine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by james8;15346844 
I'm not sure where u get those numbers from but here's a source i find that's very relevant.

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/

see the % of DX11 cards owners on steam? 28.62% and is increasing. look at the owners of DX9 cards, 5.85% and decreasing. granted most people still own DX10 cards, but the number of DX11 capable GPUs out there is not as low as you may imagine.

now let's look at the number for DX11-capable OS.
http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/directx/
scroll all the way down you see that the number of people with vista and windows 7 (Both are DX11 capable) adds up to 79.12 %.

so most gamers on steam have DX11 capable OS and a large part of them have DX11 capable GPU. so yea your argument with made up numbers is pretty much out.

This isn't facebook, please actually try to use grammar.

And how many of those "DX11 capable GPUs" are HD4290s? Or GT420s? See my point here? Until it hits something like 90%, Valve won't start making DX11 games, there's not enough of a market for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuNkDrSpOt;15348150 
If a dx 11 game runs fine on a 5770, it's not really using dx 11. Period.

Actually, real DX10/11 code would run more efficiently than DX9 code (The entire point of DX10/some of the point of DX11 was to be more efficient) and technically, they could just run all graphical modes (eg. Low, Medium, High, Very High, Ultra) in DX11, in which case even a HD4290 would be able to be classed as a DX11 GPU.

But as for DX11 effects layered over a DX9 scene, as 99% of DX11 games are today? The only one that will be true DX10, let alone 11, any time soon is going to be BF3 off the top of my head.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banzai¥;15348702 
Ah, then Lost Planet 2 is the only game to really use DX11, since it was the only game to run terribly with my 5770.
Good to know the game wasn't horribly ported at the time.

While very general, it is kinda true, all games that use DX11 are just using it over a DX9 scene. (DX10 in the case of BF3, from the looks of it)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mwarren;15349617 
There hasn't been a huge leap in graphics yet. The leap from HL1 to HL2 was huge and we haven't hit that big leap in graphical capability's yet to make people buy W7 and get a DX11 capable graphics card.

Diminishing returns, and any DX10 GPU bar the HD4870x2 and GTX 295 (Or other CFX/SLI configs) is starting to get too slow to run at say, 1080p. (My 275 attests to that.)
    
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post #228 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by sausageson;15330627 
Its funny how people on this site rip COD apart for this very reason, yet valve is allowed a free pass.

That was my exact argument that I posted in most of these CoD hate threads. The difference is that the MW2 build of the CoD engine actually looks great, whereas source is definitely lacking in almost every area.

Problem is, people like VALVe games more than they like any game published by Activision.
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post #229 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by james8;15349849 
oh really. you wanna say that to DICE who's going to release Battlefield 3 with no support for DX9 and they recommends DX11?

also, is that why you're running dual core with 4000 series card and windows xp as well? rolleyes.gif (no offense to your system)
i've heard the "there's no reason to switch" many times before from the xp fanbois.
get real. the xp population is shrinking every month. windows 7 is now the de facto gamers' OS

Cost v. Benefit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz;15349900 
Actually, real DX10/11 code would run more efficiently than DX9 code (The entire point of DX10/some of the point of DX11 was to be more efficient) and technically, they could just run all graphical modes (eg. Low, Medium, High, Very High, Ultra) in DX11, in which case even a HD4290 would be able to be classed as a DX11 GPU.

Yeah, all things considered equal, Dx 11 is more efficient but usually when Dx 11 is used, it is used to ADD to the game, not simply replace what's already there.
Edited by FuNkDrSpOt - 10/17/11 at 9:46pm
    
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post #230 of 331
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz;15349900 
And how many of those "DX11 capable GPUs" are HD4290s? Or GT420s? See my point here?

not really. HD 4290s are DX10.1 only and GT 420s are OEM only and really, who play games on those?
what exactly are you trying to accomplish by listing these cards?
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuNkDrSpOt;15349898 
If you're going to talk about what you can max out with your card, don't try to hide the resolution to make your point. That's like saying your $200 Sony receiver is the same as my $700 Onkyo because they both put out 100 watts per channel, of course hiding the fact that yours is rated at 1kHz and mine is rated at 20-20kHz.
That's the point. 1080p is the most popular, by far.

so? do YOU set the standard for what is considered "maxed out" ? as long as its running at the highest possible in-game settings, no matter if it's at 640x480 or 5760x1080 it's maxed out because you cannot increase in-game settings any higher.
as for the amplifier analogy, isn't it true? the part about "max wattage" is the same for both, disregarding frequency. so both amps are the same in terms of maximum output wattage.
Edited by james8 - 10/17/11 at 9:55pm
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