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[In] Why AMD Failed, Another Ex-Employee Confession - Page 12

post #111 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlells01 View Post
It's rather obvious at this point that you have some difficulty deciphering facts...

http://jonpeddie.com/press-releases/...-last-quarter/

This Quarter Market Share

AMD - 40.6%
Nvidia - 59.0%
Other - 0.4%

This Quarter Last Year Market Share

AMD - 41.4%
Nvidia - 57.9%
Other - 0.7%
Other = Intel's IGP?
post #112 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Karnage View Post
Other = Intel's IGP?
VIA/S3 would be "other".
post #113 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post
Yeah, hardly anybody has a Fermi...
Eh, on here and other forums I've seen many more HD6k series GPUs than GTX 4x0 or 5x0.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman23 View Post
This is pretty disheartening to hear as a computer engineering student - even the most performance demanding chips are now optimized via software Hopefully the industry will recognize there is still a necessity for actual human engineering.
Eh, I see it as bound to happen eventually, especially if we hit that wall on how small our chips can go before we have another semiconductor to use, I think that software developers would use more assembly and hardware engineers use more hand design to wring every tiny bit of performance out of a current design.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crest View Post
Really? AMD might be pulling slightly more sales, but I'd be surprised if they are owning.

Over the past few months, Nvidia's had a decent track record with quick fixes with new releases. Not that that is proof, but they've seemed to be on the ball more.
There's many more AMD GPUs (overall) than nVidia GPUs in the market, mainly because if you buy an AMD Laptop, you'll probably get an AMD GPU with it. (Whether its an IGP or otherwise)

But I doubt its more than 5% either way anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hajile View Post
The design wasn't some complete revolution. It was better, but it was similar in many ways to the Pentium 3. The biggest revolution of the Athlon days was the Pentium 4. P4 tried many new things. The P4 was a failure as a consumer or server mainstream processor; however, from the ashes of the P4, new Intel chips have risen. With each step past the original core architecture, Intel has added features that were present in the P4 (in a manner of speaking, each generation brings us closer to P4). Intel has overcome the problems of the P4 and has implemented its strengths.

The next revolution in computing is the switch to CMT. All the big chip designers have talked about switching (it has been theoretical since the 70's and has had more serious discussions this century), but only AMD had the stones to give it a try. The initial Bulldozer design was scrapped (45nm) as too early. The second iteration (or perhaps a die shrink of the first) has quite a number of design problems (nothing that invalidates the CMT theory, just good ol' fashion engineering screw-ups).

The larger problem here is that unlike the P4, there is no way to go back (like Intel went back to the P3 design) and gradually add features. The CMT design is all or nothing. If AMD is able to fix its design problems, It is very likely that the future will see Oracle (SPARC), IBM (POWER), Acorn (ARM), MIPS, Intel, Via, etc all switching to CMT design while taking lessons from AMD's mistakes.
The original P4 (Willamette) was a pile of junk unless its new stuff was used, Northwood fixed its problems and came out and competed well...It was Prescott that proved the P4 architecture was crap.

There technically is a way to go back, if they used the CMT design on an Athlon64 style core (Which, despite what Chew* was saying, could be optimized further with a better IMC, better instruction decoding and a slightly different pipeline for example) rather than the entirely new architecture that BD is, but then most of the issues seem to come from the cache and front-end, both of which could be fixed in Piledriver quite realistically.

I personally think AMD bit too much off at once, they went for the Athlon64 like thing with two major new milestones for them (IMC and 64bit for the Athlon64, CMT and the new architecture for BD) but this time it was a bit too much, CMT on a slightly more optimized and 32nm Stars Core, then a new architecture would have worked out better IMO.

But then again if Piledriver solves BDs problems and is a good chip, not many people will think about BD, I mean, how many people point out the problems with GF100 any more?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlee7283 View Post
But companies like Dell and Intel working together can push an inferior platform like the Pentium 4 and its lousy 478 chipsets on the public and yet they will accept it as great and overpay for it.

The enthusiast would say the K8 was a better solution, yet Netburst won that round. I seriously doubt our opinion has that much weight except to family members. You can recommend the 2500k to people here yet you will see a 1090t in their rig a week later.

At least AMD is now realizing they need to cater to the dumb Best Buy public who will buy 8 core processors over 4 core Sandy Bridges without doing any research.

Ignorance is bliss for most people.
To be fair, the Pentium 4 was good until the Athlon64 came out, Northwood competed with what it was meant to (Athlon XP), Prescott was the failure where Intel paid off Dell, HP, etc. (And that was mostly Socket 775)

And no, AMDs marketing department realized Zambezi is a sucky chip and tried to market the hell out of it, it's not a design with inherent problems in the entire idea of it (Eg. Netburst, not that anyone knew until Prescott ramped up the clock speeds past 3Ghz) that we know of, so far it seems like just a bad execution.

For example, no-one said the entire Fermi architecture was bad because GF100 is so leaky, and GF110 proved it isn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benladesh View Post
I may be wrong but isn't nvidea selling way more gpus than amd/ati?
Only in the enthusiast market, if that.

You buy an AMD laptop, you'll probably get an AMD GPU.

It's why Intel has the most GPUs overall due to nearly everyone using IGPs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hajile View Post
CMT might not be the future. Waiting and seeing what happens is the only option for those of us not in the chip design industry (and the option of choice for the rest of the design shops). If AMD can make CMT work, the IP (and resulting patent royalties) will be enough to make the company very rich. If AMD cannot make CMT work, the company will likely lose everything (specifically in the CPU market). This does make AMD an interesting high-risk investment option.
Theoretically it is the future, and so far it seems like the execution of it is the issue, not the actual idea itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
Even within the core, there are duplicated components that are not cache.

I do agree we assume no tweaking of the duplicated components. However, the lowest-hanging-fruit would be tweaking the the "standard" components first. From the sound of it, AMD did not even do this?
I wouldn't be surprised if AMD viewed Piledriver as its main server/enthusiast CPU and just released BD as-is to get product out before 2012 and to get more engineers on Piledriver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
True, but it is reasonable to expect BD to beat a K10.5 on single-threaded processing. When else has a new architecture not beaten the precursor?
It does, under certain circumstances.

In other news, the 286, 386, P5, P6, Netburst and K5 (All entirely new architectures like BD) had the exact same problems at first, either their new technology wasn't utilized (386, P5, P6, Netburst), their clock speeds were too low to begin with (286, 386, P5, Netburst considering its low IPC) or/and they used too much power to really be worth it (P5, netburst)

All of them had chips that came out later that fixed the problems (286-12, 386SX-33, Pentium-75/90/100, Pentium II, Northwood) and I can see the same thing happening with Piledriver.

That said, I'm not waiting until Q1 to find out, I'm upgrading to socket 1155 as soon as I can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlells01 View Post
It's rather obvious at this point that you have some difficulty deciphering facts...

http://jonpeddie.com/press-releases/...-last-quarter/

This Quarter Market Share

AMD - 40.6%
Nvidia - 59.0%
Other - 0.4%

This Quarter Last Year Market Share

AMD - 41.4%
Nvidia - 57.9%
Other - 0.7%
Once you include IGPs (The biggest market) that number changes dramatically, considering most AMD laptops would sell with an AMD IGP, and quite a few Intel laptops have AMD GPUs in them due to their low-end being updated more often than nVidias. (For example, I have a HD545v in my Samsung R540)
    
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post #114 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post
Once you include IGPs (The biggest market) that number changes dramatically, considering most AMD laptops would sell with an AMD IGP, and quite a few Intel laptops have AMD GPUs in them due to their low-end being updated more often than nVidias. (For example, I have a HD545v in my Samsung R540)
Our delusional member that I quoted was referring to the AIB marketplace; the IGP, HPU, and EPG sector is entirely different altogether, and one that Intel has a 60% market share of.
post #115 of 177
An interesting bit of quotes, regardless of true or not (though I'd like to think so). As was said, it's just too bad that the knowledgable people left and put AMD in a tight spot. It'll be interesting to see if Piledriver refines things much like GF100 -> GF110 or if they've really made an expensive mistake.
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post #116 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
Forgot about Netburst....
Actually, the first Willamette based Pentium 4's were not competitive because they were essentially just a stopgap measure; they weren't intended to run at those clockspeeds and only have 256kb of cache and work with PC100 and 133 memory. And, essentially, they were relased on the same 180nm process as the Pentium 3 Coppermine.

Northwood on the other hand was everything that Intel wanted: DDR memory was available, which gave it the necessary bandwidth, it was made with 130nm technology, had twice the L2 cache, and even had HT built in (the first models had it deactivated). Just for comparison, a Pentium 3 Coppermine 1 Ghz has a 26 - 29w TDP, a Pentium 4 Willamette 1.7 Ghz 256kb cache has a 68w TDP, while a Pentium 4 Northwood 1.8 Ghz 512kb cache has a 42w TDP. The Pentium 4 Northwood was the fastest CPU available at the time, beating AMD's Athlon XP offerings. Of course they were more expensive, but they were faster, and Intel had the fastest CPU crown until the Pentium 4 Northwood 3.2 Ghz, and then shortly after AMD released the Athlon 64.

But now AMD is working with a new process, yet they deliver worse performance than a previous generation CPU on a previous generation process manufacturing, something that only Intel managed to do with the Prescott, which was made with the wrong premise that clockspeed would continue scaling, plus the 90nm tech was leaky.

What I wonder though is how bad are AMD's yields and whether that is the main limiting factor in power consumption here. Intel had a power consumption problem with the P4 Willamette because the 130nm process wasn't ready yet when it was launched, but they experimented with that process with the Pentium 3 Tualatin and then released the P4 Northwood using it and that solved the problem.

Could it be because AMD didn't do a trial with a lower end CPU like Intel did with the first dual core CPUs 1156 Core i3 and Core i5 ?

I mean, the difference here is even greater if we take into consideration that a Core i7 2600k has a 95w TDP because of the IGP being factored in. The FX CPUs have no IGP and have a 125w TDP and use much more power when performing tasks.
Edited by tpi2007 - 10/18/11 at 5:37pm
 
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post #117 of 177
Oh geez, new architecture and no core based benches used to put it through its paces. Seems to me that it's not AMD that failed, but the idiot reviewers who used HT skewed benches to put it through it's paces.

AMD is not HT based people. Get over it.

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post #118 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceadderman View Post
Seems to me that it's not AMD that failed, but the idiot reviewers who used HT skewed benches to put it through it's paces.
Oh wow! Now I have heard every excuse
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post #119 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post
Once you include IGPs (The biggest market) that number changes dramatically, considering most AMD laptops would sell with an AMD IGP, and quite a few Intel laptops have AMD GPUs in them due to their low-end being updated more often than nVidias. (For example, I have a HD545v in my Samsung R540)
I guess you missed the part where the article he's talking about says "ADD-IN BOARDS"
post #120 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbo2 View Post
Oh wow! Now I have heard every excuse
True or not?

If it's factual then it's not an excuse. Apparently you were never in the Military. We don't make excuses. We give you the facts as we see them and let you consider their worth.

Look at the reviews and show me where a core intensive app was used to bench an 8 core CPU. Not even F@H would put that CPU through it's paces. Of note Phenom II while not an HT CPU still has IGP while BD does not. And there are not many benches that put cores through their paces because that would make Intel look infantile.

It's much like how NVidia worked "with" the developers to get their cards right. Which is nothing more than a lie. We all know that some companies make wink wink nudge nudge agreements with the developers. That's how they remain on top.

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