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[In] Why AMD Failed, Another Ex-Employee Confession - Page 14

post #131 of 177
Ceadderman I think you have fallen for AMD's more cores=better approach.

HT is 1 physical core and 1 virtual. Not 2 virtual cores. No games that I can think of actually uses HT which is why games tend t0 run better with HT off.

You should take a look at bulldozer and what a module is and the resources that the 2 cores within that module share.
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post #132 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceadderman;15362206 
^^^Refute it smart guy. If you can't, then keep your opinion to yourself. wink.gif

Oh yes. New architecture means new BIOS for testing board(s). Since when have you guys ever seen a BIOS work perfectly on a brand new board with brand new CPU. mellowsmiley.gif



Yes I was. Nobody saluted me unless I saluted first. tongue.gif



~Ceadder:drink:

F@H takes advantage of all cores. BD fails to perform. So where is your argument then? Also, HT isn't what you call "virtual cores." Intel's definition of it is 1 core processing 2 threads simultaneously.

Intel HT:
ht-intel.jpg


BD multi-core performance using the latest Cinebench:

Single threaded:
41694.png


Multi-threaded (Cinebench utilizes all cores):
41695.png



Per core performance:
FX-8150: 5.99/8 = 0.749
2600K: 6.86/4 = 1.715
2500K: 5.42/4 = 1.355
X6 1100T: 5.9/6 = 0.983

Scaling and efficiency:
FX-8150: 1.02*8 = 8.16
5.99/8.16 = 73%

2600K: 1.52*4 = 6.08
6.86/6.08 = 113%

2500K: 1.47*4 = 5.88
5.42/5.88 = 92%

X6 1100T: 1.11*6 = 6.66
5.9/6.66 = 89%

Yea BD sucks.
Edited by Clairvoyant129 - 10/18/11 at 7:53pm
 
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post #133 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clairvoyant129;15362497 
F@H takes advantage of all cores. BD fails to perform. So where is your argument then? Also, HT isn't what you call "virtual cores." Intel's definition of it is 1 core processing 2 threads simultaneously.

Intel HT:
ht-intel.jpg


BD multi-core performance using the latest Cinebench:

Single threaded:
41694.png


Multi-threaded (Cinebench utilizes all cores):
41695.png



Per core performance:
FX-8150: 5.99/8 = 0.749
2600K: 6.86/4 = 1.715
2500K: 5.42/4 = 1.355
X6 1100T: 5.9/6 = 0.983

Scaling and efficiency:
FX-8150: 1.02*8 = 8.16
5.99/8.16 = 74%

2600K: 1.52*4 = 6.08
6.86/6.08 = 113%

2500K: 1.47*4 = 5.88
5.42/5.88 = 92%

X6 1100T: 1.11*6 = 6.66
5.9/6.66 = 89%

Yea BD sucks.

Looking at price points and the Cinebench multi-thread testing, the 8150 falls right where you would expect. The problem is single thread processing should be much higher at the price point.

Also, for the flagship of the new line, the FX8150 comes up short. AMD needed to land a knock out punch on Sandybridge and didn't do it. Now with SB-E and IB on the horizon it'll be difficult for AMD to catch up, let alone surpass.

It's a sad day for the CPU market because those who purchase CPU chips needed AMD to once again surpass Intel. It's the only way to normalize the market and bring costs down.
post #134 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceadderman;15362007 
I might have misinterpreted something along the way on the IGP front. If so, my bad I'm wrong on that. Still there isn't a lot of benches that can be done that put BD through it's paces.

Now if you want to test 6 Core against any Thubbie that makes sense. Because even with HT progs there should be some kind of division between them.

There aren't any 8 core progs though so testing BD against HT chips is a bit lopsided against the AMD CPU.

Personally I think that AMD is sticking to this build model to encourage developers to write progs that will use more than 3 or 4 cores. HT doesn't do that. HT encourages developers to stick to the HT plan. Someday they'll figure out 1 core is better than 2 virtual cores. I'm hoping it's someday soon. Imagine games that use 4 cores being the norm instead of the exception to the rule. thumb.gif

~Ceadder:drink:


You're not making any sense.

If there wasn't any software that could take advantage of Bulldozer's 8 cores, wouldn't the CPU be useless in the real world ? I mean, AMD does not have the financial resources to wait until programmers catch up and people all over the world buy new software that takes advantage of this architecture.


Now, as some posters already said, Folding @ Home and Cinebench do take advantange of 8 cores. Software is not made to take advantage of Bulldozer's specific configuration ? Guess what, Microsoft still hasn't made a thread scheduler intelligent enough to first allocate full cores to games running on Intel CPUs with HT enabled, and only then, if needed, allocate the virtual cores.

Guess what, a lot of games perform worse on the 2600k versus the 2500k, and mind you that the 2600k has a 100 Mhz clockspeed advantage and 2 MB L3 extra cache. And this is Intel we are talking about. They know lots of programs and the OS still don't take proper advantage of HT, and they know it so well that they only have two models (2600 and 2600k) in their current quad core lineup that have HT.

And this is Intel we are talking about. Honestly, what was AMD thinking ? That they could arm wrestle the whole industry into using their specific core implementation overnight ? LOL. Intel has had CPU's with HT since 2002, and look where they still are.

AMD screwed up. Period. They are advertising their chip as having more speed, more cores, more cache, and it is all meaningless. They have a chip that is clocked faster but is slower than an i7 2600k, that has more cores but performs worse, that has 7 MB more cache than an i7 2600k and it performs worse. (Btw the caches in the FX have worse latencies than the Phenom II X4 Deneb. They were going in the right direction with Thuban, which had better latencies).

They released a chip with a 125w TDP and it performs worse than a chip with a 95w TDP with an IGP included. Guess what, if Intel wanted, they could remove the IGP and add 4 full cores, for an 8 core chip with a 130w TDP. Where would that leave Bulldozer ?

And you know why Intel doesn't want to do that ? Because it doesn't need to. AMD keeps screwing up, meaning no competition. They have a good design with Thuban, why didn't they just improve upon it ?
Edited by tpi2007 - 10/18/11 at 8:34pm
 
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post #135 of 177
quality > quantity.
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post #136 of 177
And watch what happens when Mainboard Manufacturers fine tune their BIOS.

Look I'm not saying that AMD didn't fail an I'm not sayin they did. Point is the CPU is too new for any review to be a proper review. I apologize if I haven't made myself clear enough to get this across. I just think that if you give Intel some slack for their failure prior to shipping that you should be willing to accept that with new architecture, AMD is probably gonna take a bit to get FX CPUs' running smoothly.

Look how long they took to even put them out. That right there should tell people they were having issues. Sandy Bridge didn't hit a home run for Intel right off the bat. And to expect that from AMD is ridiculous. regardless of how long it took them to launch.

You want proof that issues can happen after something is finalized?

Look no further than Crosshair IV. ASUS got rave reviews for the fourth iteration of their AMD RoG platform prior to launch. How many boards were shipped that had to have the NB fix done? My board was one of them. Should it happen? No, of course it shouldn't. But people are extremely naive if they think everything is going to run smoothly right out of the box. If it works like that for you, great. Enjoy your good fortune but don't tempt the computer gods by acting as though it always happens like that. That generally leads to a puff of smoke over the top of your new system imho.

Wish I had the funds and the benches to put together a proper review with updated BIOS for AM3+ boards. Cause imho it's gonna take a bit to get the bugs worked out. How many of you gave NVidia and Intel free passes with their recent issues? If you did then you have no room to poke sticks in any manufacturers eye as say fail. wink.gif

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post #137 of 177
damn was having hope that amd would pass intel with this new CPU's.
it sucks for us consumers, now that intel doesn't have such a big competition in CPU market for the time to come >.<'
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post #138 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kedas;15363041 
damn was having hope that amd would pass intel with this new CPU's.
it sucks for us consumers, now that intel doesn't have such a big competition in CPU market for the time to come >.<'

One bright possibility is we should never underestimate the ability of Intel to screw up the roll out of LGA2011 and/or the new 22nm architecture of IB.
post #139 of 177
Well it looks like the bureaucratic corporatocracy strikes again. It always makes me laugh when people talk down Govt while pretending that capitalism and business can do no wrong. It does more wrong than Govt does but you just never know about it b/c people don't tell their stories like this guy did. What this guy in the article said reads like every single job I've ever worked at.


So anyways, with Intel paying it's dues for former bad business practices, AMD making uncompetitive products and Intel making their products in the US, I guess I'm going intel next upgrade, whenever that is.
Edited by FuNkDrSpOt - 10/18/11 at 8:50pm
    
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post #140 of 177
but still how they perform in games and other app's? they should not be that bad as ppl are saying...maybe it's barely noticeable compared to the SB to normal users has me
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