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[In] Why AMD Failed, Another Ex-Employee Confession - Page 16

post #151 of 177
So who is this anonymous ex-employee that some are calling a lawyer?

edit: and what is wrong with caederman?
Edited by PoopaScoopa - 10/18/11 at 10:41pm
post #152 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
I never called you a liar.... I did say you do not know what a BIOS does nor understand how the business works.

You did imply that you hoped AMD would tweak it later.... hence the BIOS belief.

Sandy Bridge was a success. You are talking about the B2 chipset issue.... so what? Intel ate $1B on it... go look at their quarterly earnings released yesterday: http://www.intc.com/releasedetail.cf...easesType=Home Intel had a $20B revenue on desktop/workstation/mobile CPUs so far this year.... almost all of that would be SB.



Why are you attacking my moderator status? Do you want to attack your non-computer engineer or non-server knowledge?

Oh yeah, about Intel... I am a volunteer moderator there: http://communities.intel.com/people/DuckieHo

(In addition, my aunt is a fabrication manager at Intel and an uncle was chip designer.)


Don't bring a knife to a gun fight....
Hey man, not meaning to attack you just pointing out that you called me a liar. You said I was making stuff up. I'm pretty astute and to me "making stuff up" = "you are a liar". That's pretty cut and dry.

Also to point out your mistake on the profit index. 1 Intel i7-990x= 3 i5-2500k CPU in sales. I hope I got the designation right wouldn't want someone to come back at me suggesting I'm making that up. As much as people suggest that it's all Sandy Bridge, it's not. You can show me desktop numbers all you want but there is no proof to my knowledge that it's all Sandy Bridge CPUs'.

And you are correct they did spend $1Billion to fix the problem. It didn't make any sense not to. This is what I'm saying about AMD. They still can fix this. Not sure how and it's not my worry. It just means they're no more fail than Sandy Bridge was at this stage.

On the Liar front however, if I took it wrong I apologize. I'm usually not very hypersensitive. At least I didn't cuss you out. So there is that.

Oh yeah if there is one thing I do understand it's Sales figures. I worked in Sales for 15 years. I know what profit is and understand how total profit is figured.

@PoopaScoopa...
Quote:
edit: and what is wrong with ceadderman?
Not sure how or what you mean?

~Ceadder
Edited by Ceadderman - 10/18/11 at 10:58pm
 
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post #153 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceadderman View Post
Also to point out your mistake on the profit index. 1 Intel i7-990x= 3 i5-2500k CPU in sales. I hope I got the designation right wouldn't want someone to come back at me suggesting I'm making that up. As much as people suggest that it's all Sandy Bridge, it's not. You can show me desktop numbers all you want but there is no proof to my knowledge that it's all Sandy Bridge CPUs'.

And you are correct they did spend $1Billion to fix the problem. It didn't make any sense not to. This is what I'm saying about AMD. They still can fix this. Not sure how and it's not my worry. It just means they're no more fail than Sandy Bridge was at this stage.
"1 Intel i7-990x= 3 i5-2500k CPU in sales" is an incorrect statement.

You probably mean the the price of a single 990x is three times that of a 2500K. The margins on a single 990x is probably closer to 2.5 times that of a 2500K (same lithography but 15% more transistors and lower volumes).

However, this does mean almost nothing. The money is made in volume. Enthusiast parts are flagships.... while they have a higher margin, they provide less total revenue (ask NVIDIA, AMD, etc). In fact, Intel themselves have stated "the company’s current crop of Core CPUs, codenamed Sandy Bridge, is Intel’s fastest selling platform yet with more than 75 million chips shipped." So would you explain to me and Intel how SB is not a success?


http://techcrunch.com/2011/09/14/int...panys-history/



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceadderman View Post
And you are correct they did spend $1Billion to fix the problem. It didn't make any sense not to. This is what I'm saying about AMD. They still can fix this. Not sure how and it's not my worry. It just means they're no more fail than Sandy Bridge was at this stage.
Intel $1B probably was due to a single faulty component on the chipset that missed QA. It was NOT a Sandy Bridge CPU or design issue. AMD's issue is a fabrication and architecture issue with BD. These are MASSIVELY two different issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceadderman View Post
Oh yeah if there is one thing I do understand it's Sales figures. I worked in Sales for 15 years. I know what profit is and understand how total profit is figured.
I have a BS in Computer Engineer/Economics and have worked in financial software development for 10 years.... so what? Did you read the financial statements from Intel? It doesn't matter what you may think... Intel has provided the numbers and stated that SB is a success.
Edited by DuckieHo - 10/18/11 at 11:07pm
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post #154 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
"1 Intel i7-990x= 3 i5-2500k CPU in sales" is an incorrect statement.

You probably mean the the price of a single 990x is three times that of a 2500K. The margins on a single 990x is probably closer to 2.5 times that of a 2500K (same lithography but 15% more transistors and lower volumes).

However, this does mean almost nothing. The money is made in volume. Enthusiast parts are flagships.... while they have a higher margin, they provide less total revenue (ask NVIDIA, AMD, etc). In fact, Intel themselves have stated "the company’s current crop of Core CPUs, codenamed Sandy Bridge, is Intel’s fastest selling platform yet with more than 75 million chips shipped." So would you explain to me and Intel how SB is not a success?


http://techcrunch.com/2011/09/14/int...panys-history/
My point being that it's unprovable without Intel's itemized sales figures and even then that's not very reliable since vendors buy in bulk and their sales figures are what matters and not Intel's.

Just because I purchased 100 units of SB and 35 units of i7-990x doesn't mean I sold more of one than the other. Both could be sitting on my shelves collecting dust until such time as I choose to have a sale and lower my storage costs.

~Ceadder
 
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post #155 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceadderman View Post
I'm pretty astute


what I'm saying about AMD is They still can fix this. Not sure how and it's not my worry.

if there is one thing I do understand it's Sales figures. I worked in Sales for 15 years. I know what profit is and understand how total profit is figured.
You're "astute" but you think a bios update can fix BD performance and think that Extreme Edition products make up the bulk of the revenue?
post #156 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceadderman View Post
My point being that it's unprovable without Intel's itemized sales figures and even then that's not very reliable since vendors buy in bulk and their sales figures are what matters and not Intel's.

Just because I purchased 100 units of SB and 35 units of i7-990x doesn't mean I sold more of one than the other. Both could be sitting on my shelves collecting dust until such time as I choose to have a sale and lower my storage costs.

~Ceadder
75M SB units shipped. Intel also wants a 60% margin on their products.... If you don't think SB makes up most of their 2011 Consumer CPU group's revenue.... yeah, you don't know much about the industry. There is absolutely no way 100 SB to 35 990x is plausible. It probably is closer to 10,000-5,000 SB to 1 990x.... think of how many workstations, OEMs, and laptops are sold vs top-tier enthusiast systems.


This is the x86 CPU business.... an effective duopoly. Margins are razor with CPU sales... if a vendor has many CPUs sittings on the shelves, they will be closing their doors very soon. Go ask around and find out the margins of CPU sales. It basically is cheaper to buy from Newegg than from suppliers if you're a small business. Only large bulk orders (thousands) get any discount and no one makes such orders without knowing demand. In addition, how often do you see CPUs massively discounted by companies? Micro Center does because they use them as loss leaders. Newegg and OEMs can because they are such a large buyer.
Edited by DuckieHo - 10/18/11 at 11:19pm
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post #157 of 177
Egads peeps.

1. I'm not saying that 990x makes up the bulk of Intel's sales. I used one CPU as example. Just like you can't legitimately state that SB is the bulk of Intel's sales based on this same knowledge.

2. Using the product ordering to further this stance. Obviously 990x was a focus of my argument but it's not the whole enchilada.

I don't know maybe I'm not being clear enough. I don't know how to make it any clearer except that without the hard figures from the Vendors as to what they sell the most of there is no clear cut way to suggest that SB or Enthusiast CPUs' from Intel outsell the other. And yes I do realize and understand that SB is an Enthusiast CPU as well. Just using ECPU as a way to separate the two.

I doubt vendors buy to store anything and they do keep their turnover going. I understand a product supply chart and how it works. I hacve x so much of product A and I'm understocked by y amount and I sold z amount this week so I order * amount extra based on average sale per day.

Yay, bully for you. You understand it too. But you're not willing to listen to my point so lets just call it a draw. You're no more right than I am, I am no more right than you are and we'll leave it at that.

~Ceadder
 
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post #158 of 177
Umm, 75M SB units shipped explains as clear as day that SB is the bulk of Intel's sales. You even said, "vendors buy in bulk and their sales figures are what matters". Yet you still can't figure out that hardly any vendors ever buy Extreme Edition CPUs in bulk. How many vendors do you know even sell them? Good luck trying to find a system with them from Dell, HP, Sony, Toshiba or Acer...
post #159 of 177
we can only hope that our groups(enthusiasts) can drop their brand loyalty and start buying whats best for their rig. until then we wont see much more competative prices than they are now. unfortunately for those that are brand loyal, its going to be an even harder decision to drop their loyalty and go with whats best, the only one who wins when a consumer is loyal to a brand/make is the manufacturer. and when that happens the company has no reason to make drastic improvements, they can simply rely on the consumer who will buy their product regardless.
    
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post #160 of 177
The bottom line is this:

Intel had a record Q3, surpassing $14 billion in revenue for the first time. AMD, on the other hand, has already issued a warning for less-than-forecasted results.

We'll wait and see on the 27th.
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