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Has anyone tried BD 8 core on Windows 8? - Page 2

post #11 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbjmed View Post
I took this from the Anandtech review. [IMG][/IMG]

Not much but its something I guess.
I like the 10% increase in L4D 2. Bulldozer is fine, except for when it runs lightly threaded applications/games in windows 7. I'm sure whatever they did in windows 8 can be applied to win7 as a minor update/tweak to fix BD's performance when its threads arent all being used. Under heavily threaded applications, like BF3, BD performs as expected even in win7, which is why there is not much of a performance increase for it in windows 8. It's when its cores are not fully used where it slows to a crawl and you can clearly see that's been fixed seeing as how L4D has 10% increased performance. To me, it really looks like a windows scheduler/cpu driver issue... I wouldn't say BIOS though. It can't come out soon enough. Hurry the F!$% up AMD/MS!!!!

I really want them to release the tweak just so we could rightfully say AMD has hit a "bang for the buck" bullseye yet again.. I presume this fix will put BD right where it ought to be.... Between the 2500k and 2600k. Maybe a little more towards the 2600k because of the extra threads/cores.

Slap on a lower price and AMD is back in the game!
Edited by Grlzzly - 10/18/11 at 3:27pm
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post #12 of 15
There are people that keep insisting Intel must get the same performance increase as bulldozer if windows "makes multi threaded performance better." These people clearly do not understand the nature of the software problem. While I'm tempted to write an essay on processor architecture and discuss a number of factors that can affect observed performance, I think a simple real world example may suffice.

Years ago Intel came out with an innovative new method of multi-threaded processing and called it "hyper-threading." Initially, it sucked. The theoretical performance gains were never observed and systems gained performance in many cases by disabling hyper-threading. If you are too young or new to the technical scene to remember this, try google.

It turned out that given how operating systems utilize memory it is sometimes better to not multi-thread. It is usually better to offer preference to actual cores than hyprer threads if available. For some workloads it is better to clock the actual cores higher and turn off hyper-threading. In the case of hyper-threading, the hardware offered capabilities that were being mis-used in some cases and ignored in others by software. This was however, remedied.

Windows added intelligence to it's thread scheduler to attempt to get the best performance possible out of hyper-threaded processes.

For those in the software industry, you may recognize Raymond Chen, Principal Software Design Engineer at Microsoft discussing it in his blog in brief: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/oldnewthing/...13/228780.aspx

For those looking for the official microsoft support of hyper-threading with technical details: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/wind...dware/gg463502

The same thing is going to occur with Bulldozer. There will be a period where software (Microsoft) actually makes the architecture perform worse and where it will not take advantage of available functionality. Eventually, Microsoft will acquire acquire enough real world data to tweak their task scheduling and get the most out of the new Bulldozer architecture. This is the "Windows 8" gain that people are talking about. It is true that any generic scheduling changes that Microsoft does will impact both processors, however these changes will be small. I actually doubt that the Windows 8 developer preview includes every tweak possible and we may see more AMD specific increases in future versions.
Edited by rew017 - 10/18/11 at 5:32pm
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post #13 of 15
As for Windows 7 receiving this update, it is rather unlikely it will be out soon, if at all. Task scheduling is one of the lowest level functions of the kernel. I haven't checked lately, but I'm pretty sure it is still included in the ntoskernel executable. AFAIK, the only time Microsoft has updated the kernel is in a new version of windows and service packs. This leads to a likely projection that Windows will not use Bulldozer intelligently until Windows 8 or a Windows 7 service pack.
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post #14 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by rew017 View Post
As for Windows 7 receiving this update, it is rather unlikely it will be out soon, if at all. Task scheduling is one of the lowest level functions of the kernel. I haven't checked lately, but I'm pretty sure it is still included in the ntoskernel executable. AFAIK, the only time Microsoft has updated the kernel is in a new version of windows and service packs. This leads to a likely projection that Windows will not use Bulldozer intelligently until Windows 8 or a Windows 7 service pack.

In that note, hopefully we get a service pack before piledriver comes out. Windows 8 looks quite promising as a desktop operating system. You obviously know 10x more than I do about software and hardware, but if I'm not mistaken windows 8 was built off windows 7, so I'm not expecting another "vista." But say it does turn out to be and people stick with windows 7, it would suck for BD owners (or anyone who buys AMD's current/upcoming chips) if windows did not release a service pack where they update the kernel. Here's hoping!
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post #15 of 15
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Originally Posted by rew017 View Post
Years ago Intel came out with an innovative new method of multi-threaded processing and called it "hyper-threading." Initially, it sucked. The theoretical performance gains were never observed and systems gained performance in many cases by disabling hyper-threading. If you are too young or new to the technical scene to remember this, try google.
Don't forgot lack of multi-threaded software at the time was another big reason why HT was so under-utilized at the time.
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