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Bulldozer in desktops is here to stay. - Page 3

post #21 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomicFrost View Post
I think that most people just want the old AMD back . . . the year 2004 AMD. Back then it didn't matter that AMD was this small munchkin company compared to Intel. They released Athlon64 to the masses, and it whooped Pentium 4 when it came to performance. Socket 939, first real dual core 64 bit CPU, low cost. That is what won AMD over so many fans, myself included.

I miss those days.
The first AMD cpu I ever had was IIRC 386sx and I had seen the performance against the Intel 386DX it was good except it lacked the Math co-processor.

I feel AMD did well even with the Phenom's.
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post #22 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by StepanPepan View Post
I think you are not here to judge, what is useless and what is not.

If you think that this thread is useless it is the best for you to stop participating in it. Thank you.
not judging, have an opinion, was stating my opinion.

i've been a member of this forum for a very long time, have a invested interest here, and personally, like many else, are actually getting quite tired of these "newly registered" members, coming in here and posting the same crap over and over again about bulldozer.

yes we know bulldozer is a amdud, we know it can barely compete with amd's former generation and intel's latest generation, yes we know amd needs to tweak it, and yes we know that not all software is optimized for it yet.

to most, its a complete failure, but not to me. amd has a very idea, their ideas to seem to pan out over time, people laughed at them for amd64...people laughed about moving the memory controller on die...native dual and quadcore, waste of money...but they introduce tri-cores and hexacores...no one was laughing after those success, and no one will be laughing at BD when software does become optimized for it, and apps start becoming heavily multi-threaded, it is just a matter of time.

from what you are saying, to what are real facts, you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to running a business or designing architectures. your problem is you came here, thinking you had some how found a chink in amd's logic, but all you really found was actual truth and facts from amd.
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post #23 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by transhour View Post
not judging, have an opinion, was stating my opinion.

i've been a member of this forum for a very long time, have a invested interest here, and personally, like many else, are actually getting quite tired of these "newly registered" members, coming in here and posting the same crap over and over again about bulldozer.

yes we know bulldozer is a amdud, we know it can barely compete with amd's former generation and intel's latest generation, yes we know amd needs to tweak it, and yes we know that not all software is optimized for it yet.

to most, its a complete failure, but not to me. amd has a very idea, their ideas to seem to pan out over time, people laughed at them for amd64...people laughed about moving the memory controller on die...native dual and quadcore, waste of money...but they introduce tri-cores and hexacores...no one was laughing after those success, and no one will be laughing at BD when software does become optimized for it, and apps start becoming heavily multi-threaded, it is just a matter of time.

from what you are saying, to what are real facts, you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to running a business or designing architectures. your problem is you came here, thinking you had some how found a chink in amd's logic, but all you really found was actual truth and facts from amd.
It's not just OCN he's doing this to Link


OT/ There is no way AMD will back out of this processor after so many years spending money on it, and where do you expect them to pull a new desktop processor from? or should the just carry on with Phenom II which is also loosing to Intel?
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post #24 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomicFrost View Post
I think that most people just want the old AMD back . . . the year 2004 AMD. Back then it didn't matter that AMD was this small munchkin company compared to Intel. They released Athlon64 to the masses, and it whooped Pentium 4 when it came to performance. Socket 939, first real dual core 64 bit CPU, low cost. That is what won AMD over so many fans, myself included.

I miss those days.
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post #25 of 43
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pyra View Post
It's not just OCN he's doing this to Link
If you were able to understand the language, you would find that what followed was a nice mature discussion with no personal attacks concluding that AMD have no resources to develop new chip now.

I really do not like the tone you and transhour bring in this discussion. I like rational discussion and I am not interested in personal attacks at all.

As a thread starter I am asking you and transhour to stop patricipating in this thread. I hope you will respect me. Thank you.
post #26 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post
Haven't most people have given up on this? If any sort of software fix could happen, it would have happened long before release. A fix to eglibc for Linux happened back in March. These people do know what they are doing for the most part. It is rather insulting to think that they would not have been working on this from the get go to make sure the BIOS and software could make as much use out of the CPU as possible. It is possible little 1% tweaks or something might come along, but to expect more than that is unreasonable. Something big could happen I guess...it is just very unlikely. So don't sit around expecting it and be mad if it doesn't happen.
First of all, it is more than just a minor patch that is needed, so we won't be seeing piddly little single digit improvements. Software redesigns are what's really needed to take advantage of new architectures. That means new versions of software and operating systems and service packs for the old ones, and those are likely to bring reasonable improvements. By then, bulldozer will have been replaced by piledriver.

Your logic also has a flaw in that it is hard t program for an architecture you haven't encountered before. To get stuff programmed to take advantage of a new architecture would require the company to work with software engineers directly. They probably don't have the time and resources for that. This is why software lags behind hardware. The hardware has to be released before programs can be written to take advantage of it. AMD can take steps to smooth over a release, but software is mostly out of their hands, so expecting issues from the software side to be fixed before release is unrealistic.


Bulldozer is a disappointment, but that doesn't automatically condemn the whole architecture.
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post #27 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by transhour View Post
to most, its a complete failure, but not to me. amd has a very idea, their ideas to seem to pan out over time, people laughed at them for amd64...people laughed about moving the memory controller on die...native dual and quadcore, waste of money...but they introduce tri-cores and hexacores...no one was laughing after those success, and no one will be laughing at BD when software does become optimized for it, and apps start becoming heavily multi-threaded, it is just a matter of time.

The really sad thing is that AMD has come up with and produced most of the really good CPU ideas in the last ten years or so, but then Intel copies it and makes it better. I am betting the same will happen with bulldozer once we are closer to it being utilized. Once Intel starts doing something the software seems to follow suit faster too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BirdofPrey View Post
First of all, it is more than just a minor patch that is needed, so we won't be seeing piddly little single digit improvements. Software redesigns are what's really needed to take advantage of new architectures. That means new versions of software and operating systems and service packs for the old ones, and those are likely to bring reasonable improvements. By then, bulldozer will have been replaced by piledriver.

Your logic also has a flaw in that it is hard t program for an architecture you haven't encountered before. To get stuff programmed to take advantage of a new architecture would require the company to work with software engineers directly. They probably don't have the time and resources for that. This is why software lags behind hardware. The hardware has to be released before programs can be written to take advantage of it. AMD can take steps to smooth over a release, but software is mostly out of their hands, so expecting issues from the software side to be fixed before release is unrealistic.


Bulldozer is a disappointment, but that doesn't automatically condemn the whole architecture.
i am not condemning the architecture...just condemning the thought of a patch to current software is going to fix it. I am in the same boat as you. We will need entirely new operating systems and software to utilize it. Windows 8 won't do it since its foundation is already built and that foundation was built on current hardware. So as far as Windows goes we are many years out from gaining any benefit that the new FX line was hoping to give. By that time a FX8150 will be obsolete...even Piledriver based CPUs will be on the verge of being obsolete. Linux has already been making kernel changes for Bulldozer for a long time. So most newer version of Linux will already liekly use a bulldozer based CPU quite well. Though I guess the benches aren't really showing much difference from Linux to Windows.
Edited by Vagrant Storm - 10/19/11 at 6:56am
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post #28 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sm0keydaBear View Post
Problem is, most people are too stuck up with their heads in their butts to realize that AMD moved forward, not backward, and that is, my friends, a LOT better.
AMD moved backwards with bulldozer:
  1. Transistor count has doubled compared to Phenom II X6
  2. Core count has increased by two.
  3. Power usage has risen by 5-10%.
  4. IPC is down 15-20%.
  5. Overclockability is improved by about 15%
  6. Total performance is slightly better compared to Phenom II X6
Please tell me why AMD couldn't have sandwiched 2x Phenom II X4 for a Phenom II X8, added some more Cache, and still keep transistor count lower than the bulldozer die?
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post #29 of 43
AMD makes a new architecture and suddenly everyone is a microprocessor engineer.
post #30 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post
Once Intel starts doing something the software seems to follow suit faster too.
Funny how that works,eh? Nothing shady going on there, I'm sure. All that lawsuit non-sense is in the past. Whats a little optimized compiler or bribery/kickback between friends? A Leopard can change his spots.
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