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[ARS]Can AMD Survive Bulldozers Disappointment? - Page 7

post #61 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arni90 View Post
The performance of the FX-4170 is definitely enough to be a decent CPU for office and the likes.

No one does any heavy encoding and the likes on current APUs because the performance is not acceptable. Look at Intel Quicksync, it's a nice technology allowing you to transcode a video to your smartphone or iPod. AMD probably has similar goals, the difference being they would make it for transcoding, rendering, compression and so on...
The problem isn't that few people are doing it, the problem is it's expensive and unpractical to use a workstation.
Performance is fine for typical office situations, yes.

The power draw of having a cubicle farm each running a BD chip, however, is not acceptable. You can run Outlook, Excel, SAP, etc just fine on a C2D or a Phenom, for much less power (read: cheaper).
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post #62 of 118
AMD will survive.
Edited by Segovax - 10/27/11 at 2:29pm
post #63 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by test tube View Post
It's a shame we just didn't see 12 cores AMD CPUs on the K10.5 architecture and 32nm -- they would have used less transistors and probably less power. It would also have destroyed Intel in price/performance. I wonder if we'll see a rollback to the former architecture like we did with Prescott.
Just tacking on six more cores would leave the L3 too small and the memory controller too slow to service them all adequately. There would also be no where else to go. The architecture was already at it's limit, and process shrinks don't come fast enough to make it remotely worthwhile to just throw as many of the same old cores as possible on a chip and get away with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilhe4e12345 View Post
so what worries me the most is that they are still "defending" BD and saying taht the software isnt up to par with it yet and that Piledriver will have the same issue...and so will all the others...

so what you just told me is that i am to expect this to keep happening because its part of the plan? to keep failing?
There will certainly be enhancements in later chips.

Keeping the same basic design is not a bad idea. Yes, it will take time before the chips are put to best use, but this is not an excuse to ride an old architecture until it has literally no where else to go.

Obviously the first implementation of this new architecture has issues, but the concept is quite sound.
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post #64 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post
Just tacking on six more cores would leave the L3 too small and the memory controller too slow to service them all adequately. There would also be no where else to go. The architecture was already at it's limit, and process shrinks don't come fast enough to make it remotely worthwhile to just throw as many of the same old cores as possible on a chip and get away with it.



There will certainly be enhancements in later chips.

Keeping the same basic design is not a bad idea. Yes, it will take time before the chips are put to best use, but this is not an excuse to ride an old architecture until it has literally no where else to go.

Obviously the first implementation of this new architecture has issues, but the concept is quite sound.
i really hope they do something to make piledriver an actual GOOD chip rather then the power hungry disaster they currently have....i was holding out on the 10 core BD to see how it would perform but now its waiting till Piledriver and hopeing they bring out another Phenom 2
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post #65 of 118
Funny how not long ago ATI was going under and AMD bought them and kept their graphics cards alive and now people are saying AMDs graphics chip sales that are going to keep the CPU segment from going under.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joephis19 View Post
AMD is fine. Their CPU side, obviously, will struggle for a bit. But they are in the lead on the GPU side.
The latest hardware surveys don't agree with this statement. Right now Nvidia and AMD have about equal shares of the consumer GPU market. I think its fair to say Nvidia has bounced back from their trouble with fermi.
Edited by Kirby1 - 10/20/11 at 10:18am
    
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post #66 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Am* View Post
People also tend to forget that their enthusiast level CPU is competing with mainstream Intel chips at well over double the power usage. In its current state, Bulldozer will not even be remotely useful/interesting as a mainstream option for OEMs or any other system builders/manufacturers, so your post makes no sense. The efficiency/power-per-watt of the current "enthusiast" BD chips has a direct impact on anything they will make with the same architecture/revision that's lower end, like it or not, it will still fail in those markets even more.

Example: 1055T (95W version) is probably the best power per watt CPU of the Phenom II series, since it runs 6 cores @2.8GHz + 6MB L3 cache (I think). Anything lower end is way less efficient per core/watt, like any Athlon/Sempron excluding their e-series versions, so my point still stands. No mainstream PC manufacturer like Dell will use it when they can use a cheaper Intel counterpart that will save them on PSU costs by using way less power at both idle & load and extend the lifespan of their PCs, thus saving them possible returns/warranty costs.

EDIT: server and the mainstream markets are where AMD makes their money. Their 16 core BD will flop big-time against their current Phenom II based 12 core Opteron, if current Bulldozer efficiency/performance is anything to go by and same goes for everything mainstream.
^ People also tend to forget about the AMD APU. You're just silly if you think people are going to be building "mainstream" computers with Bulldozer.

AMD will make more money off of their APU series and server level Bulldozers chips than their enthusiast, or what you like to call "mainstream" series Bulldozers.

People shouldn't assume because it's a crappy desktop CPU that it will be a crappy server cpu.
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post #67 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joephis19 View Post
Performance is fine for typical office situations, yes.

The power draw of having a cubicle farm each running a BD chip, however, is not acceptable. You can run Outlook, Excel, SAP, etc just fine on a C2D or a Phenom, for much less power (read: cheaper).
Rocking Office, Quick Test Professional, and Visual Studio just peachy on a fairly new HP with a E6300 in it. Though it means I don't get to virtualize much...I am right now running scripts on 11 machines; 11 physical machines.

Even running two overclocked FX 8150's would not use the power that all these machines are running, and could vitualize all these machines quite easily...provided they have enough memory to give each one at least 1.5GB.

Though if I work from home I will set up VMs just fine on my i7 860 and Q6600 as well. I've mentioned this to my boss several times...but they just keep buying more machines. Some times I wonder if AMD didn't buy us out without me knowing.
Edited by Vagrant Storm - 10/20/11 at 10:15am
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post #68 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joephis19 View Post
Performance is fine for typical office situations, yes.

The power draw of having a cubicle farm each running a BD chip, however, is not acceptable. You can run Outlook, Excel, SAP, etc just fine on a C2D or a Phenom, for much less power (read: cheaper).
I was assuming they would have to fix the power usage if they were to put BD in a 35W APU
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post #69 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirby1 View Post
Funny how not long ago ATI was going under and AMD bought them and kept their graphics cards alive and now people are saying AMDs graphics chip sales that are going to keep the CPU segment from going under.
ATI wasn't about to go under in 2006. They were having trouble with R600... it was late and too slow but was eventually refined to the current HD6xxxx line.

Sound familar? (Fermi)
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post #70 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kvjavs View Post
^ People also tend to forget about the AMD APU. You're just silly if you think people are going to be building "mainstream" computers with Bulldozer.

AMD will make more money off of their APU series and server level Bulldozers chips than their enthusiast, or what you like to call "mainstream" series Bulldozers.

People shouldn't assume because it's a crappy desktop CPU that it will be a crappy server cpu.
Who's going to be buying Bulldozer then? It's priced in the mid-range segment if you didn't notice, and the 4/6 core models are nearing budget territory. A person looking for high-end performance certainly wouldn't buy it in most cases, Intel fills that slot. And PII does a much better job at filling the low mid-range and budget area, with Llano filling the the rest of the gap. Is it not logical to assume that a server cpu based on EXACTLY the same architecture won't perform similarly (this is in fact true, if you'd done the research)? BD is no great winner in the server catgory either, a segment that is already massively dominated by Intel.
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