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[ARS]Can AMD Survive Bulldozers Disappointment? - Page 8

post #71 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kvjavs View Post
^ People also tend to forget about the AMD APU. You're just silly if you think people are going to be building "mainstream" computers with Bulldozer.

AMD will make more money off of their APU series and server level Bulldozers chips than their enthusiast, or what you like to call "mainstream" series Bulldozers.

People shouldn't assume because it's a crappy desktop CPU that it will be a crappy server cpu.


You're the one being silly. The current K10 based APUs are going to be phased out for Bulldozer-E/Piledriver based APUs. And show me one sign or proof that Interlagos won't suck against current Opterons, because last time I checked, 8 Bulldozer cores barely beat 4 Phenom II cores. Interlagos won't have double the cores, but rather just 33% more. You're insane if you think it will succeed based on the state their current BD chips are in now, unless it's going to get Piledriver cores already, which I very much doubt.

If it is still going to be based on the current BD architecture, it will suck. That's a guarantee.
    
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post #72 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
ATI wasn't about to go under in 2006. They were having trouble with R600... it was late and too slow but was eventually refined to the current HD6xxxx line.

Sound familar? (Fermi)
If ATI was not going to go under why did AMD purchase them?
    
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post #73 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman23 View Post
Who's going to be buying Bulldozer then?
Only people with an AM3+ Mother Board, and even then it will not be all of them as BD is even with a Phenom II in many of the Benches.

Beyond that, there is no good reason to buy it.
post #74 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Am* View Post


You're the one being silly. The current K10 based APUs are going to be phased out for Bulldozer-E/Piledriver based APUs. And show me one sign or proof that Interlagos won't suck against current Opterons, because last time I checked, 8 Bulldozer cores barely beat 4 Phenom II cores. Interlagos won't have double the cores, but rather just 33% more. You're insane if you think it will succeed based on the state their current BD chips are in now, unless it's going to get Piledriver cores already, which I very much doubt.

If it is still going to be based on the current BD architecture, it will suck. That's a guarantee.
Because servers are used for gaming and itune music conversion....
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post #75 of 118
Why is it that none of these sites, or really any site, realize that every, and i mean EVERY, new architecture has stumbled at the beginning, look at Fermi, and really the first gen Fermi are a good analogy to Bulldozer, they consume lots of power, run hot, was a brand new architecture, and competed with the ATI cards pretty well, just about the same as Bulldozer.

I am 99.8727472% positive that AMD will massively improve for the second generation of Bulldozer, and possibly for future revisions of this one.

Also, even in the off chance that AMD never recovers and Bulldozer doesn't even get improved, AMD will not go under. The important part of the company is the APU and other Mainstream processors meant for Laptops and Netbooks. Which are doing fine. The people that would buy Bulldozer are in the 3-7% range of their total consumers and about, i would estimate, 2% of their total profits.

TL;DR: AMD will not go under from this. Period. Did Intel survive their Pentium 4 complete flop, Yes. Did ATI and Nvidia survive their last flops, yes for both, although ATI did get bought by AMD but still.
post #76 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevlo View Post
Why is it that none of these sites, or really any site, realize that every, and i mean EVERY, new architecture has stumbled at the beginning, look at Fermi, and really the first gen Fermi are a good analogy to Bulldozer, they consume lots of power, run hot, was a brand new architecture, and competed with the ATI cards pretty well, just about the same as Bulldozer.

I am 99.8727472% positive that AMD will massively improve for the second generation of Bulldozer, and possibly for future revisions of this one.

Also, even in the off chance that AMD never recovers and Bulldozer doesn't even get improved, AMD will not go under. The important part of the company is the APU and other Mainstream processors meant for Laptops and Netbooks. Which are doing fine. The people that would buy Bulldozer are in the 3-7% range of their total consumers and about, i would estimate, 2% of their total profits.

TL;DR: AMD will not go under from this. Period. Did Intel survive their Pentium 4 complete flop, Yes. Did ATI and Nvidia survive their last flops, yes for both, although ATI did get bought by AMD but still.
AMD has said themselves that they expect only a ten percent performance increase one year from now. With Ivy Bridge coming out before Christmas and expected to deliver a 30% performance increase over SB, AMD is going to fall even more behind than they are now. They're time line for performance increases needs too be off by about 500% for them regain a competitive position against Intel.

Not saying they will go under though. The worst that could happen to AMD in any foreseeable future would be that they stop making desktop CPUs, but I dont think that will happen.
Edited by Kirby1 - 10/20/11 at 10:54am
    
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post #77 of 118
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevlo View Post
Why is it that none of these sites, or really any site, realize that every, and i mean EVERY, new architecture has stumbled at the beginning, look at Fermi, and really the first gen Fermi are a good analogy to Bulldozer, they consume lots of power, run hot, was a brand new architecture, and competed with the ATI cards pretty well, just about the same as Bulldozer.
Yonah
Conroe
Kentsfield (ish)
Nehalem

All came out and rocked with few draw backs.

Quote:
I am 99.8727472% positive that AMD will massively improve for the second generation of Bulldozer, and possibly for future revisions of this one.
And 46.79% of statistics are made up on the spot. CPU's take years to design, so AMD is stuck with the basic structure, and the basic structure is a lot of the problem with Bulldozer.

Quote:
Also, even in the off chance that AMD never recovers and Bulldozer doesn't even get improved, AMD will not go under. The important part of the company is the APU and other Mainstream processors meant for Laptops and Netbooks. Which are doing fine. The people that would buy Bulldozer are in the 3-7% range of their total consumers and about, i would estimate, 2% of their total profits.

TL;DR: AMD will not go under from this. Period. Did Intel survive their Pentium 4 complete flop, Yes. Did ATI and Nvidia survive their last flops, yes for both, although ATI did get bought by AMD but still.
Please read the article like I asked, it is to save your self from ranting about nothing. The article is about the current situation, not about AMD being broken up and sold or anything.
    
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post #78 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevlo View Post
Why is it that none of these sites, or really any site, realize that every, and i mean EVERY, new architecture has stumbled at the beginning, look at Fermi, and really the first gen Fermi are a good analogy to Bulldozer, they consume lots of power, run hot, was a brand new architecture, and competed with the ATI cards pretty well, just about the same as Bulldozer.

I am 99.8727472% positive that AMD will massively improve for the second generation of Bulldozer, and possibly for future revisions of this one.

Also, even in the off chance that AMD never recovers and Bulldozer doesn't even get improved, AMD will not go under. The important part of the company is the APU and other Mainstream processors meant for Laptops and Netbooks. Which are doing fine. The people that would buy Bulldozer are in the 3-7% range of their total consumers and about, i would estimate, 2% of their total profits.

TL;DR: AMD will not go under from this. Period. Did Intel survive their Pentium 4 complete flop, Yes. Did ATI and Nvidia survive their last flops, yes for both, although ATI did get bought by AMD but still.
A lot of statements but not a lot of truths. Not every architecture stumbles - look at SB. It was a hit from the start and we have seen nothing but strong performance from the cpu architecture from the start. You also seem to think that the failure of bulldozer has no effect on the rest of the company. You do realize that those same server cpus are based off the exact same BD architecture? And you do realize that Fusion APUs will use next-gen Piledriver cores? If they don't provide this massive improvement that you are completetly guessing at, what position will they be in?
post #79 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasp1js View Post
Because servers are used for gaming and itune music conversion....
You might want to troll elsewhere. Even in heavily multithreaded scenarios (video transcoding/Cinebench), which is Bulldozer's best result (and the Thuban's), it gets almost matched by a lower clocked Thuban everytime. Fact is, Phenom II vs Bulldozer with 33% more cores = even trade.
Edited by Am* - 10/20/11 at 11:05am
    
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post #80 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirby1
With Ivy Bridge coming out before Christmas and expected to deliver a 30% performance increase over SB, AMD is going to fall even more behind than they are now.
Where the hell did you pull that number from? 30%? The highest I've seen was 20%, and that was from Intel themselves. Anand said it'd be more around 10%.

Also, Ivy Bridge is not coming out before christmas. It's shipping for revenue in the second half of Q4. It won't be on the shelves until spring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Am* View Post
You might want to troll elsewhere. Even in heavily multithreaded scenarios (video transcoding/Cinebench), which is Bulldozer's best result (and the Thuban's), it gets almost matched by a lower clocked Thuban everytime. Fact is, Phenom II vs Bulldozer with 33% more cores = even trade.
I do believe bulldozer draws less power than thubans, but I haven't looked at the numbers in a while
Edited by Homeles - 10/20/11 at 11:21am
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