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[CBC]Bell to scale back throttling of file-sharing - Page 2

post #11 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyslexyc;15394061 
No matter how you shake it, the throttling was never to prevent "slaying the networks". It was to enable them to rest on their laurels and not reinvest the massive profits they've been earning to improve the customer experience.

They have allowed their network to stagnate to a point where this could even be problematic. Also, this is Bell's numbers you're quoting here. They're also the company who tells people that the set-aside for new entrants in the spectrum auction is going to limit competition and service in Canada. They also claim to have some of the best rates in the world for internet and wireless services, which is patently false.

Again, ITMP was purely economic for Bell, regardless of their presentations to the CRTC. There's plenty of research that has debunked many of Bell's justifications for their business practices, but I'm not gonna do your research for you. If you want to continue to defend the company who tried to force Usage Based Billing on the entire nation, go ahead.
post #12 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyslexyc View Post
Again, ITMP was purely economic for Bell
Lovely retort; you see actual data, but it doesn't support the vile and hatred you possess for a company, so the numbers must be entirely fabricated.

Any business, regardless of what they sell, exists for one core reason; to make money. If you don't like how Bell operates, and think that customers have a god-given right to do as they please with a network, then I have three suggestions:

1. Bring your business elsewhere.
2. Pay more. (remember - a business exists to make money, period)
3. Start your own company.

The choice is yours.
post #13 of 27
When I lived on the eastcoast I went with videotron. Higher caps, faster speed and no throttling.
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post #14 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlells01 View Post
Lovely retort; you see actual data, but it doesn't support the vile and hatred you possess for a company, so the numbers must be entirely fabricated.

Any business, regardless of what they sell, exists for one core reason; to make money. If you don't like how Bell operates, and think that customers have a god-given right to do as they please with a network, then I have three suggestions:

1. Bring your business elsewhere.
2. Pay more. (remember - a business exists to make money, period)
3. Start your own company.

The choice is yours.
You clearly have a great grasp on the situation here in Canada. It has nothing to do with refuting stats, I've read the reports that have refuted this, I'm not gonna do a research paper for you here on the forums. This capitalistic "growth at any cost" mentality is what's wrong here. The incumbents were handed their market positions on a silver platter and then had them entrenched in regulatory frameworks. The problem right now in Canada to address your retarded list:

1. There is nowhere to bring it! Canada is in a structural duopoly in 95% of the markets in the country -- where there is competition, it's limited by the incumbents because they want to impose their ITMPs on the small companies who operate on shared infrastructure.

2. We already pay the highest rates in the world for the worst service.

3. Again, the whole issue in Canada is that it's IMPOSSIBLE for new entrants to compete with the entrenched conglomerates of Bell/Rogers/Telus/Shaw.

How about you display some understanding of the situation instead of leaning on lame figures like the incumbents do. They don't reflect the realities of the marketplace.

The internet at this juncture is a human right. Society would collapse if it were to falter due to the heavy dependence on automation and instant communication to keep our economy and societal framework functioning. To allow two companies to dictate the price and service delivery in an entire country is the height of insanity when it's a utility as essential as electricity or natural gas. Take your neo-capitalistic tripe elsewhere.
Edited by Dyslexyc - 10/21/11 at 8:42am
post #15 of 27
its a start for canadian isp
    
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post #16 of 27
I'm with Teksavvy at the moment and good to hear Bell is backing off.
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post #17 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyslexyc View Post
How about you display some understanding of the situation instead of leaning on lame figures


Lame figures, like actual data? I'm sure if the facts supported your beliefs, we would have seen them. As it stands though, all you have is unsubstantiated bias.

In regards to not grasping the situation in Canada, I posted information directly from the CRTC; where's yours?

All you've managed to do here is spew your hate for a company and the way that they choose to do business. Fine; that doesn't add anything productive to this discussion, or any other.
post #18 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlells01 View Post


Lame figures, like actual data? I'm sure if the facts supported your beliefs, we would have seen them. As it stands though, all you have is unsubstantiated bias.

In regards to not grasping the situation in Canada, I posted information directly from the CRTC; where's yours?

All you've managed to do here is spew your hate for a company and the way that they choose to do business. Fine; that doesn't add anything productive to this discussion, or any other.
It's about competition, not congestion.

Canada's Net Neutrality Enforcement Failure

Usage Based Billing and Network Congestion: Sorting Through The Claims

Here you go.

From the article:

Quote:
For the larger incumbent ISPs, “technical measures” – also known as traffic shaping – have become a common practice for addressing congestion issues. Virtually all of the larger Canadian incumbent ISPs use some form of traffic shaping to limit the bandwidth allocated toward high-bandwidth applications during peak periods. The incumbent ISPs apply these measures to all traffic regardless of whether it is their own retail traffic or traffic that originates from independent ISP subscribers.

There is also reason to believe that incumbent ISP networks are large enough to handle the Internet traffic without concern for congestion since the same networks simultaneously carry other high bandwidth traffic such as IPTv. The issue may well be one of bandwidth allocation. If Internet traffic demands continue to grow faster than the other bandwidth demands running on the same connection, carriers could shift some of the “space” reserved for services such as IPTv (or the chicken roasting channel in the case of cable) to the Internet and thereby relieve some of the congestion pressures.

None of this suggests that consumer broadband demand is not growing rapidly. Driven by increasing use of the network for streaming and downloading video as well as data intensive games, it clearly is. However, the demands on the network are not outside historical norms nor do they necessarily mean that the network is now “congested.” Rather, it suggests that certain parts of the network may face greater congestion strain during certain periods in the day, which can be addressed through several mechanisms, including increased investment, technical measures such as traffic shaping, and a re-examination of bandwidth allocation on ISP networks.
In other words, they have a vested interest in making your internet experience terrible, thus pushing you towards their services like IPtv and Landline phones instead of using torrents and VOIP. Their margins are in hooking you into all of their services, not one that can replace 3.
Edited by Dyslexyc - 10/21/11 at 9:00am
post #19 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyslexyc View Post
In other words, they have a vested interest in making your internet experience terrible, thus pushing you towards their services like IPtv and Landline phones instead of using torrents and VOIP. Their margins are in hooking you into all of their services, not one that can replace 3.
More conspiracy theory...ugh.

Notice the stark differences in our information; yours consists of thoughts, theories, and conjecture from the website of an individual who supports certain causes. Mine, on the other hand, is just plain 'ol data (which you've already accused of being falsified, since it comes from Bell and doesn't support your motives).

"Last fall, before the Company began deployment of its Internet traffic management solution to ease network congestion during peak usage periods, 5% of users were generating 60% of total traffic on the network and 60% of that traffic was P2P traffic, including BitTorrent. During peak periods, that same 5% of users were utilizing 33% of available bandwidth. In other words, 95% of Bell subscribers were being negatively impacted by a very small minority of Internet users primarily using P2P file sharing applications.

As a result of the application of its Internet traffic management solution, the Company has observed a 50% reduction in total P2P traffic during peak periods and a decrease in the number of congested links. The Company has also observed that other types of traffic such as web browsing, and audio or video streaming, previously impacted by congestion at peak periods, has quickly filled the bandwidth made available through the use of Internet traffic management therefore improving the customer online experience for such interactive and real-time activities."
Edited by jlells01 - 10/21/11 at 9:06am
post #20 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlells01 View Post
Notice the stark differences in our information; yours consists of thoughts, theories, and conjecture from the website of an individual who supports certain causes. Mine, on the other hand, is just plain 'ol data.

Last fall, before the Company began deployment of its Internet traffic management solution to ease network congestion during peak usage periods, 5% of users were generating 60% of total traffic on the network and 60% of that traffic was P2P traffic, including BitTorrent. During peak periods, that same 5% of users were utilizing 33% of available bandwidth. In other words, 95% of Bell subscribers were being negatively impacted by a very small minority of Internet users primarily using P2P file sharing applications.

As a result of the application of its Internet traffic management solution, the Company has observed a 50% reduction in total P2P traffic during peak periods and a decrease in the number of congested links. The Company has also observed that other types of traffic such as web browsing, and audio or video streaming, previously impacted by congestion at peak periods, has quickly filled the bandwidth made available through the use of Internet traffic management therefore improving the customer online experience for such interactive and real-time activities.
So what, I'm expected to provide data to refute Bell's claims to the CRTC? The problem with the CRTC is a lack of transparency, where we never get to see the numbers because it's "privileged corporate information". Why would Bell provide data on their networks that would refute their claims? I provided analysis and reasoning as to why they're an unethical company who engaged in practices that violated CRTC regulation time and time again (look at the list of ITMP-related complaints to the CRTC, that's just a small sample). Statistics can be used to make a point either way, fact is that data doesn't prove congestion, it implies congestion, and supports Bell's claims as always. Learn the difference.

There's no mention of their solutions for congestion other than limiting usage. Not once did they mention allocation of bandwidth or the limitations on the network. If congestion is such a problem, why is Netflix being allowed without any restrictions? It's been proven that VoD is a far higher strain on their infrastructure than P2P ever was. Get a clue.
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