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post #171 of 252
One tragic flaw I see with everyone's arguments is the "If it wasn't for ___ we would all be stuck doing ___."

For whatever reason, people seem to think that without one person, progress wouldn't be made. That is like saying "If the Cretans hadn't built the first indoor plumbing system, we would all be crapping outside."

Really?
     
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post #172 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus2129 View Post
More reasons not to mourn his passing. Evil man. Shrewd business man, but not anybody I would ever look up to.
Mods come quick! An opinion that doesn't mesh with the sensitivities of the public!

It's too true, it hurts my emotions!
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post #173 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post
......

Now that's just purely speculation. You don't know whether he was refusing treatment or not. You're just making it up as you go... He never said he was "cured" of cancer. Cancer doesn't always just disappear forever. And anyways, what does his personal health have to do with his computing contributions? Nothing.

......
Not speculation at all. He refused to let the Dr's remove his cancer and instead opted for Holistic medical treatment. When he finally realized it was doing nothing for him, it was too late...

...and he did claim to be cured. Some speculate that it was purely to prevent Apples stock from dropping.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...79J7RB20111021
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post #174 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riou View Post
Wozniak did all the programming and hardware design. Jobs was just a salesman. Who made who rich? The answer depends upon what you value more important.
Engineers need direction and focus. Steve wanted to start a company. He grabbed Woz and focused him into building a computer that they could sell. Without Steve's inspiration and motivation, Woz would of just kept doing what he was doing as a hobbyist. Woz is just as important as Steve is here. Neither one would of achieved what they did without each other.

Steve is an amazing CEO and visionary. Woz is a technical genius. Combined they created what would be the most successful company in the world.
Don't forget that Steve has done far more than getting an investor to give them $100K to start the company from their garage. Woz wasn't behind the iPod or iPhone or iPad which each product has completely changed the face of computing thereafter. It's not as if Steve didn't create any of the products Apple sells. He was the driving force of the company.


Quote:
Originally Posted by airbozo View Post
Not speculation at all. He refused to let the Dr's remove his cancer and instead opted for Holistic medical treatment. When he finally realized it was doing nothing for him, it was too late...

...and he did claim to be cured. Some speculate that it was purely to prevent Apples stock from dropping.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...79J7RB20111021
He said he was doing better after the transplant. He didn't claim to be completely "cured". Read the emails he sent out to his employees... You don't know whether cancer is going to come back or not.

He was also a Hippie from the 60s who ate nothing but fruit. So what if he tried alternative medicine? Speculation is just that - speculation. He had two operations to try and remove the cancer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DCSRM View Post
One tragic flaw I see with everyone's arguments is the "If it wasn't for ___ we would all be stuck doing ___."

For whatever reason, people seem to think that without one person, progress wouldn't be made. That is like saying "If the Cretans hadn't built the first indoor plumbing system, we would all be crapping outside."

Really?
If Isaac Newton hadn't invented calculus, someone else would of just came along and done it too, right? If Galileo hadn't made observations of the skies and sacrificed his livelihood to defy the religious church someone else would of just done it too? Why even bother honoring them when someone else is just going to do it anyways? Forget Gandhi or Martin Luther King, someone else would of did what they did anyways. IBM would of eventually seen the light and built computers for consumers... Yeah, not really.
Edited by PoopaScoopa - 10/21/11 at 3:02pm
post #175 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCSRM View Post
One tragic flaw I see with everyone's arguments is the "If it wasn't for ___ we would all be stuck doing ___."

For whatever reason, people seem to think that without one person, progress wouldn't be made. That is like saying "If the Cretans hadn't built the first indoor plumbing system, we would all be crapping outside."

Really?
Agreed.

Connections with James Burke should be required viewing for anyone who wants to render a critical analysis on the topic of historical trends.
    
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post #176 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by xJavontax View Post
This. Exactly this.

I would pick on Jobs. He seems like that one kid who thinks he's above everyone else because he's smarter than the average person. He's conceited is what I'm trying to say.

Well, aren't you cool.

I agree with you.

Right. Because EVERYTHING the iPhone and iOS has, Jobs and Apple came up with on their own? The jailbreaking community fixed that busted operating system that is iOS. Apple simply took those ideas, implemented them into iOS, and said they made them. I want to rip Apple to it's core.

LOL

There's only so many ways you can make a use-able mobile OS.
Ditto.
post #177 of 252
    
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post #178 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post
Engineers need direction and focus. Steve wanted to start a company. He grabbed Woz and focused him into building a computer that they could sell. Without Steve's inspiration and motivation, Woz would of just kept doing what he was doing as a hobbyist. Woz is just as important as Steve is here. Neither one would of achieved what they did without each other.
And then Gates stole all the money. Now I understand, thanks for clearing that up.
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post #179 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post
It's Wozniak... And he never stole "a few thousand dollars" from him either. He made Woz rich. Are you even living in the world as everyone else?

Sorry for the mis-spell. I hypothesized that Woz would have become rich without Jobs (emphasis on hypothesized). The story told in the source of one of my previous posts leaves little room to dispute the story of theft.

Again, he didn't steal anything. Learn your history. He paid the researchers who wanted to share it with him. They didn't have anything production worthy. They never gave him a line of code. He turned it into a working product.

Read my later post and source.


The only one's who full of himself would be you thinking that you even know what happened. Not only DID he recreate Apple's success, Apple bought NeXT for 400 million dollars. You really have no clue what is going on.

I was just a little off here (was mostly typing from memory). Jobs was rehired when NeXT was bought (late 1996). He became "interim CEO" in 1997 and official CEO in 2000.

Wrong again... He used his own money to build NeXT and it was a success. Developers were making a killing selling software for NeXT.

The company almost went broke. Jobs blew through 247 Million dollars of investors money (Canon alone invested 155 million). The company signed some deals with IBM and Sun (who later shelved the project) that made the company marginally profitable a few months before its purchase. Even so, the company was forced to become a software company and Jobs knew that he couldn't fight Windows and win. (source)

His other astounding success is Pixar. The other company he almost went bankrupt investing all of his own money in. We all know what happened to that company. Disney bought it.

IIRC, Jobs was heavily involved in NeXT during the time when Pixar was becoming famous (the whole Toy Story thing). He wasn't too involved in the day to day business. He bought Pixar from George Lucas and the team was already successful (doing CG for major movies) before he bought it.

Yet again, couldn't be further from the truth. Apple bought out NeXT because they wanted his OS. He wasn't hired as CEO before this. They re-hired him after every CEO that replaced him was a complete failure and the company was failing to come up with any innovating ideas. Gates' clone was taking off and the Macintosh had nothing going for it because Steve was no longer part of the company.

If anything, they bought it because Jobs was a better salesman than the CEO of BeOS. Without regards to salesmanship, the fact was that "out of the blue", Jobs decided to sell and selling did make the company look like a bigger success than it was.

Now that's just purely speculation. You don't know whether he was refusing treatment or not. You're just making it up as you go... He never said he was "cured" of cancer. Cancer doesn't always just disappear forever. And anyways, what does his personal health have to do with his computing contributions? Nothing.

from Ars Also, read my source in my other post.
Quote:
"I've asked [Jobs why he didn't get an operation then] and he said, "I didn't want my body to be opened...I didn't want to be violated in that way," Isaacson recalls. So he waited nine months, while his wife and others urged him to do it, before getting the operation, reveals Isaacson. Asked by Kroft how such an intelligent man could make such a seemingly stupid decision, Isaacson replies, "I think that he kind of felt that if you ignore something, if you don't want something to exist, you can have magical thinking...we talked about this a lot," he tells Kroft. "He wanted to talk about it, how he regretted it....I think he felt he should have been operated on sooner."
What is this crap? "probably resulted in someone else dying because he took their liver"??? You don't take someones liver. They donate it. People die and their organs are used for living people. He almost died waiting for a transplant. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

It is true that liver can be donated multiple times from a live donor because it grows back; however, someone was dying because they needed a liver. The chances are extremely high that the same liver donor could have donated to someone else and that another person died because he or she couldn't find another match. Jobs got onto a transplant list despite having had cancer. In hindsight, it is obvious that he was still battling cancer and losing. A doctor wouldn't dream of giving a liver to someone who is at a high risk of dying.

Now you're just throwing random insults you made up as your argument? I've clearly been trolled into responding to you and I'm not even going to finish correcting the rest of you non-sense post.

edit: forgot this one. The fact is that he had a deadbeat dad. Do you think that psychologists wouldn't agree that this had a huge impact on his life and wouldn't have had significant contributions to his (quite famous) anger problem? Here's a free one, male children with deadbeat fathers are much more likely to exhibit similar traits and actions when older.

Your understanding of history is so far removed from reality it's almost not even worth responding to your trolling and I'm sorry I even wasted my time on someone so ignorant of history.
Answered above
Edited by hajile - 10/21/11 at 3:22pm
post #180 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by hajile View Post
Perhaps it was because he was willing to lie in court to keep from spending a little pocket change on a child that he fathered (If you don't want the kid, don't have the sex).

As to him being a smart business person.

from Arstechnica

Would a smart business person refuse 5 Billion dollars, let alone threaten to spend 40 Billion more just to prove a point? Getting paid for each Android device made would have been the smart business decision. A settlement gives profit with no chance for loss while a lawsuit costs loads of money and only holds the possibility of profit and the profit granted will just be the money that would have been paid before plus a bit more (which is mostly spent paying the lawyers) because Apple couldn't prevent Android, Apple could only demand payment for use of patents.

As to Steve Jobs as a moral person, one of the first things he did in his career was steal a few thousand dollars from Wazniak. Just a little later, he stole the WIMP/mouse GUI idea from Xerox. After he was fired from Apple, he was so full of himself that he decided he could recreate the Apple's success (not realising that the success of Apple's earlier years was due to amazing engineers such as Wazniak and the company would have likely been a success without him). The result of this belief was the creation of NeXT Computer inc. The company blew through millions of dollars of investors cash without achieving success. Nobody was buying NeXT computers nor NeXT OS's. In the meantime, Apple was looking to replace the (not so gracefully) aging OS9. The replacement in consideration was BeOS, the most advanced OS of the day (nothing was even close). For example, watch the Beos demo below (running on two (yes it was natively multithreaded) pentium cores).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsVydyC8ZGQ

Around this time, Apple rehired Jobs. In an attempt to cover his multi-million dollar failure, Jobs stopped all talk with BeOS and instead bought NeXT (BeOS was bought and shelved by Palm, so I guess it's HP's now). Just a few short years later (2006), Jobs was involved with the famous Apple stock option scandal. Jobs decided that employees given stock instead of bonuses would work harder to keep from losing money due to bad stock prices. Realize that Jobs has been in the business world for almost 30 years and knows (I don't see how he couldn't) about what can and can't be done. What he then decides is that all stock options would be granted at the end of the year, but the accountants would look over the stock values and grant the stock options (by backdating them) for the day when the stock price was the lowest. While I find it hard to believe, Jobs was let off the hook because he claimed that he didn't know it was illegal (I can't believe that not one of the accountants at Apple told him that cooking the books was illegal).

Fast forward a couple more years and we see a foolish Jobs refusing real medical treatment for years for a cancer that is almost 100% curable and instead opting to try alternative remedies until the extremely slow-growing cancer has become systemic (Here's a great write-up from a researcher specializing in the type of cancer Jobs had). After Jobs had his pancreas removed, he lied to investors and employees by saying that he was cured. Despite the systemic nature of his cancer, he still (supposedly through legal means) was placed on a transplant list and received a liver (which probably resulted in someone else dying because he took their liver).

Aside from these and other Job's actions which were either illegal and/or immoral (depending on moral perspective perhaps), he was a fairly boring person with anger issues (perhaps stemming from his deadbeat dad).


He sold an image to his customers, that is all.

The market for high-end portable devices has been around since the 90's. The only part of the device that could be viewed as revolutionary in any way (and there were others) was a capacitive touch device. Nokia and others had considered capacitive screens (remember, Apple just bought the screens; another company though that they were good enough to waste R&D on and then waste production resources on) as a problem. The problem with capacitive screens is that stylus' don't work well with them. A stylus is much faster for quite a few Asian languages and Asia is a huge market. The other factor is that a finger is not as precise. That said, many companies were playing with the idea of finger UI's. The one thing that Steve did with adopting the capacitive screen is to make people believe that resistive screens are bad when in fact the current generation of resistive screens are better in that they have the same durability as capacitive (due to using glass), they have the capability of using precise stylus', and they allow for variable pressure (capacitive screens can only sense on or off, not how much pressure. Pressure is, at best, guesstimated based on the size of the contact area which leads to inaccuracies for people with different sized hands).

As for a revolutionary OS, almost every idea was already used by some other company at a previous time. Further, Android, WebOS, and WM6 were already in the pipes and Maemo (later merged with Meego) had been shipping since 2005.

It is ludicrous to believe that a tech company that invests as little as Apple does into research could develop ALL the mobile innovation of the decade. The industry was well aware of the future of smartphones as touch devices long before Apple released the iphone.
If Android didn't exist or wasn't same as iOS, Apple would be thriving more in the smartphone market.
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