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[Nightmare Mode] Valve on Economics of Pricing, Piracy - Page 5

post #41 of 55
Steam statistics, and their potential implications, are indeed quite interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chachi123 View Post
1. Infinite access to EVERY game you EVER buy FOREVER from their servers.
This remains to be seen.

What actually happens when Valve and/or Steam ceases to exist is anyone's guess, despite Valves's current stance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chachi123 View Post
2. ANY computer in the world can use and abuse Steam.
As long as it's connected to the internet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chachi123 View Post
3. Has all your friends on it.
No, it doesn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chachi123 View Post
If ANY other type of DRM does ANYTHING close to this, i'll give you a dollar.
And GfWL doesn't count, because i cant get 90% of games on there like i can on Steam.
Valve is indeed the most sugar coated DRM I have encountered.

It's still DRM and I'd still prefer not to be required to use it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chachi123 View Post
I find having to constantly have steam up to play ALL my games (seriously, i have lost ALL my old CDs/DVDs of great games) is not that bad a deal considering that besides Blizzards stuff, its a one-stop-shop for games and gaming.
I find that having all of my games (whether discs that I've ripped or various digital downloads) in my E:\\Games directory to be considerably more convenient than Steam or any similar service.

Quote:
Originally Posted by t00sl0w View Post
yes, steam is DRM and i also feel that they are the only people to get it right.
DRM is going to exist regardless of whether or not you want it to, so why not praise a good system?
No such thing as a good system of DRM, and being the best of the worst is a highly dubious distinction.

I flatly will not purchase games with any DRM anymore, unless it's easily disabled/bypassed.

If that means I buy fewer games, it's well worth it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superpuperdudle View Post
I would never pirate a valve game that i dont own. Its like a law.
I've never felt compelled to obey a law I didn't agree with, unless there was the equivalent of an armed law enforcement officer looking over my shoulder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z Overlord View Post
Guess what? Steam has DRM in it. But to call Steam DRM is to call an HDTV foam peanuts just because they come packaged with it.
Steam is DRM first and foremost. The rest is just fluff.
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post #42 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave12 View Post
Because in my original post I said that what Newell said sounded like common sense, offered a short explanation, and asked Duckie why it would be so important to see Valve's dataset? What Duckie responded makes sense. Why any of this saddens an econ student to the point of denigrating me doesn't.
So, i had responded to your post and tried to get my point across, only to find out that a mod had erased my post, causing my edit to disappear into limbo. 20 min of typing and a perfect post....gone. You had a good idea but your point used 2 econ concepts that could have been misunderstood in 10 different ways.

back to DE:HR.
Edited by FuNkDrSpOt - 10/24/11 at 7:42pm
    
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post #43 of 55
I love how their experiment meant them putting games on sale

I want more experiments... Guess I'll have to wait till Christmas. 4,000% increase is insane. I think it just shows that other people share the "It's so cheap I can't afford not to buy it." mentality.
    
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post #44 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtSpike View Post
Duckie - even more interesting would be an experiment where the price directly correlates to the supply and demand of a game.

For every minute where the game is not purchased, the price is reduced by $0.01. For every game purchase, the price is increased by $0.01.

I'd love to see what sort of price path it takes for a newly-released steam exclusive!
It doesn't correlate to the supply and demand, just the demand, given that the supply is infinite. But interesting experiment nonetheless
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post #45 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuNkDrSpOt View Post
It's probably more of the fact that you said in a full paragraph what could have been said in a single sentence. It's the fact that your purpose is more about sounding smart than articulating your point.

If you had written that for a professor they would probably mark you down a few notches for using the thesaurus too much.

You remind me of this skit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TexL-eyZHzo
This sums up how I feel about the English language in school. Teachers and society in general are trying to push sounding more eloquent when we speak as some sort of insecure way of giving off the vibe of an educated person, but in reality it just distorts the actual purpose of having languages, communicating. If you can get your thoughts across, then that is good enough.
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post #46 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tunechi View Post
This sums up how I feel about the English language in school. Teachers and society in general are trying to push sounding more eloquent when we speak as some sort of insecure way of giving off the vibe of an educated person, but in reality it just distorts the actual purpose of having languages, communicating. If you can get your thoughts across, then that is good enough.
Except that sometimes one has to use technical terms, or say things that are "the mark of an educated person". Try explaining relativity to a layperson or person that never took physics. When I mean explaining, I mean the whole derivation and everything. When this was a new theory, Einstein essentially showcased it, lecture style. He explained his thoughts well to them using technical terms, but he never really explained it at all to the countless reporters asking about it, because he couldn't do it comprehensibly and quickly.

Getting your thoughts across sometimes requires "sounding smart" so to speak.
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post #47 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave12 View Post
I'm no economist, but I am a partner at an investment firm and an accountant. If you want to call me a dummy refute what I said.

Marginal utility on the consumer side in what I said is carrying a heavier weight to the intangible of satisfying the "want" because DRM or not the price of the game is less-affected as almost every new release is going to be 59.99-ish because the market has stabilized at this point.

Need to go pick up pizza, brb to finish editing this.

edit- Pizza in hand.

The game theory bit was about how a company needs to acknowledge that the number of times the game is pirated is not equal to lost sales to the extent that intrusive DRM was causing a barrier to consumption to a percentage of these non-participants. If a game is sold for 399.99 USD and requires verification on 17 networks and only allows for one install per license ever you will only sell a handful of games and the 99,999,999 times it's pirated is irrelevant. On the other end you have a game that is free, but the company requests you donate a penny if you like it. This company has FOC of 25,000,000.00 a year and spent 45,000,000.00 developing that IP specifically. 0 piracy and the company is out of business because they can't recoup the costs. Valve has a metric, (look at this thread and count the number of guys that love steam, accept steam and hate all DRM), that accounts for the pirates of convenience and the pirates generally. Specifically targeting the available market and the price that will get the maximum number of buyers within the relevant range to Valve and the game developers.

A factor of 40 increase in sales is irrelevant if the margin that is left requires sales of BEU is 500 million.

tl;dr

The intangible assumption in their modeling, and Valve's unique ability to measure it, that being as unobtrusive in verifying that you are offering proper support to a product and excluding non-participants is a stronger profit driver, than is locking down a game with 12 flavors of Securom or dropping its price to an astronomical BEU is what matters.

Where am I confused?
Lol? I hope that "investment firm" hired you for your ability to count beans, not to form coherent sentences and thoughts.

I can't "refute" nonsense. Stringing together economic buzzwords at random is not an argument that I can oppose. Here, I'll get you started:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory

All the crack-cocaine-fueled words following your mention of "game theory" suggest that this page would help.

*edit* OK, I was pretty harsh, but the link is offered for serious reasons. Reading up on the concepts before attempting to use them will help a lot.
Edited by Soggy_Popcorn - 10/24/11 at 8:22pm
post #48 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soggy_Popcorn View Post
Lol? I hope that "investment firm" hired you for your ability to count beans, not to form coherent sentences and thoughts.

I can't "refute" nonsense. Stringing together economic buzzwords at random is not an argument that I can oppose. Here, I'll get you started:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory

All the crack-cocaine-fueled words following your mention of "game theory" suggest that this page would help.

*edit* OK, I was pretty harsh, but the link is offered for serious reasons. Reading up on the concepts before attempting to use them will help a lot.
From wikipedia.

Quote:
The normal (or strategic form) game is usually represented by a matrix which shows the players, strategies, and payoffs (see the example to the right). More generally it can be represented by any function that associates a payoff for each player with every possible combination of actions
Monster fueled, crack is for salesmen/marketing types. What I wrote is clearly a stream of thought and I obviously didn't edit what I wrote for grammar, but it is still a valid interpretation of what I think Newell is saying in the proper technical context. Thanks for calling me out and contributing nothing in the process.

OT- The title Partner is one of ownership, not necessarily employment.
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post #49 of 55
Play nice people and stay on the topic itself!
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post #50 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tunechi View Post
This sums up how I feel about the English language in school. Teachers and society in general are trying to push sounding more eloquent when we speak as some sort of insecure way of giving off the vibe of an educated person, but in reality it just distorts the actual purpose of having languages, communicating. If you can get your thoughts across, then that is good enough.
That's a major part of anglo-saxon America in general. America is very ethnocentric. It doesn't just pertain to language, but dress ( powdered wigs ), religion ( 1 god = superior, advanced. Pantheism = inferior, savage ), music, dance and almost all major parts of society . It's been that way for centuries.

That's why i liked Red Dead Redemption. The assumed superiority of the peoples from those times is on full display.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
Play nice people and stay on the topic itself!
Duckie, duckie, duckie.....you know we're like a bunch of chipmunks on speed with ADD....but I'll try b/c you asked. : )
Edited by FuNkDrSpOt - 10/24/11 at 9:01pm
    
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