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Need a SSD.. OCZ or Intel? - Page 4

post #31 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by ieatchairs View Post
I bought an OCZ Solid 3 recently and so far it's been nothing short of amazing. It was loaded with 2.13 so I upgraded to 2.15 right when I took it out of the box and so far (past few days) I haven't had a single BSOD, freeze, or anything else people have been complaining about. As long as somebody is capable of upgrading the firmware, I'd HIGHLY recommend this drive, or any other OCZ SATA3 drive.

If you feel like paying $2 per GB, by all means, get an M4. If you feel like paying more than that, get an Intel. They ARE more reliable. I won't be an OCZ fanboy and say that they aren't better drives. However, in my opinion, the OCZ drives are now well worth what they cost.
That's the way I see it as well. I ordered an Agility 3 120GB yesterday for $125 shipped. That's $90 less than the comparable M4 and crazy money less than the Intel.

The M4 and Intel drives are more reliable, in that they don't currently have any such "widespread" issues. For a reasonable assurance against such issues, you pay quite a premium in both cost and performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Hairy_Yak View Post
everyone on here will tell you the m4 is the best, but I happened to buy my ocz agility 3 for $130, thats a 120gb for $130... and It is perfectly fine + as fast as anything out there. so take your pick on pricing.
It's funny how some things just catch on like wildfire (no Patriot pun intended). Don't get me wrong. I'm not knocking the M4 or Intel drives at all. I'm using a first gen Intel X-25 drive in my laptop right now. I bought it because it was made by Intel, and there's something to be said for that. On the other hand, I do notice its shortcomings. Reads are super fast, but software sometimes takes forever to install. The newer Intel and M4 drives may bench faster on 4k performance, but that advantage doesn't make up for the amount it trails in other areas, IMO.
post #32 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasimojo View Post
The newer Intel and M4 drives may bench faster on 4k performance, but that advantage doesn't make up for the amount it trails in other areas, IMO.
4k scores are the only ones that matter.

The sequential reads and writes that Sandforce uses as it's main selling point is used about 1% by the average owner.

And the lower rank drives like the Agility and Solid 3 are, imho, not worth consideration because of how poorly they handle incompressible data compared to the M4 or Vertex 3.

OCZ has the highest ssd hardware failure rate in the industry. That being said, it's really not that much higher than Intel or Crucial.

But if I had to do it again, the M4 would be my first choice.
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post #33 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcg75 View Post
And the lower rank drives like the Agility and Solid 3 are, imho, not worth consideration because of how poorly they handle incompressible data compared to the M4 or Vertex 3.
So poorly that you probably need to be benching them to notice.

Besides, that difference only applies to writing (moving or copying) media files or other files that are already compressed. So don't use them for your MP3 library or HTPC movie drive...then again, who would?

The M4 is a great drive, no doubt, and people are flocking to it in droves, because of the worry about OCZ drives. Funny thing is that with every person who says they bought an M4 because of the problems with the SandForce 2281 controller, that worry grows. The best you can do is do your own research and decide for yourself how much weight that should carry.
post #34 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasimojo View Post
So poorly that you probably need to be benching them to notice. .
You would also need a benchtest to tell the difference between a 2 year old x-25m and your Agility 3. Why did you buy it again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasimojo View Post
Besides, that difference only applies to writing (moving or copying) media files or other files that are already compressed. So don't use them for your MP3 library or HTPC movie drive...then again, who would? .
You're assuming that there is simply incompressible and compressible data. The fact is all data is compressed to a point. A drive that can handle all data at the same rate is the best drive for an OS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasimojo View Post
The M4 is a great drive, no doubt, and people are flocking to it in droves, because of the worry about OCZ drives. Funny thing is that with every person who says they bought an M4 because of the problems with the SandForce 2281 controller, that worry grows. The best you can do is do your own research and decide for yourself how much weight that should carry.
ROFL. I bought my Vertex 3 in April so I was there from the beginning. I bought my M4 because I felt I could no longer trust my Vertex 3 after being lied to by OCZ so many times. How would you feel about a company that to this day has denied there is a problem? They told everyone that it was their fault because they didn't setup Windows right. Then when everyone still had problems, it was because they were overclocked. So we got rid of overclocks. Next they said to get rid of Intel RST because it was the problem. So we did and went back to msachi and still bsod.

It's great that you own an OCZ product and you want us to know how great it is but don't belittle the people that the bsod situation has caused grief to for 6 months.
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post #35 of 41
i have 2 OCZ agility2 paperweights..OCZ RMA is a nightmare...they were real nice while they lasted..all 3 months i vote for the m4 or anything with NOT a sandforce controller
 
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post #36 of 41
i have the vertex 3 max iops and i am very happty with it.

never had any crashes or bsods. would definintely recommend ocz! wait until next week. ocz is releasing their everest series.
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post #37 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcg75 View Post
You would also need a benchtest to tell the difference between a 2 year old x-25m and your Agility 3. Why did you buy it again?
Uh, because I'm just now getting around to buying one for my sig rig?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcg75 View Post
You're assuming that there is simply incompressible and compressible data. The fact is all data is compressed to a point. A drive that can handle all data at the same rate is the best drive for an OS.
I disagree. A drive that handled all data at 200MBps would not be better than one that handled compressible data at 550 and incompressible at 200.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcg75 View Post
ROFL. I bought my Vertex 3 in April so I was there from the beginning. I bought my M4 because I felt I could no longer trust my Vertex 3 after being lied to by OCZ so many times. How would you feel about a company that to this day has denied there is a problem? They told everyone that it was their fault because they didn't setup Windows right. Then when everyone still had problems, it was because they were overclocked. So we got rid of overclocks. Next they said to get rid of Intel RST because it was the problem. So we did and went back to msachi and still bsod.
Did you ever actually experience the BSOD problem, yourself? Just curious, as one would think that would be the best bit of anecdotal evidence on the matter. Otherwise, well...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcg75 View Post
It's great that you own an OCZ product and you want us to know how great it is but don't belittle the people that the bsod situation has caused grief to for 6 months.
You're the only one belittling anyone here. I haven't even received my OCZ drive yet, so I really can't say how "great" it might be. I also never once suggested they should not buy an M4 or Intel drive. I merely advised them to do some research of their own, and not discount the SandForce drives based purely on word of mouth. Surely if they're such terrible products, even a cursory perusal of a few hardware review sites will confirm that, right?

One more point I might mention is that I have yet to read a review from a hardware site that experienced any problems at all during all their extensive testing. I'm not saying the problem doesn't exist - it most certainly does, and it sucks for those who run into it. I hope I'm not one of them. It's just a less frequent issue than it's perceived to be is all.
post #38 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasimojo View Post
Uh, because I'm just now getting around to buying one for my sig rig?.
But you choose Agility 3 when a bunch of other ssd could have given you the same everyday performance for less money and you'd only see a difference in benchmarks. All I'm trying to say here is that the logic you applied saying you can only see a difference in benchmarks can also be applied back to you or any of us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasimojo View Post
I disagree. A drive that handled all data at 200MBps would not be better than one that handled compressible data at 550 and incompressible at 200..
Of course it wouldn't. But what I was referring to was a drive like the M4 that will run very similar numbers in Atto and as-ssd. Or even the Vertex 3 which reads both types of data the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasimojo View Post
Did you ever actually experience the BSOD problem, yourself? Just curious, as one would think that would be the best bit of anecdotal evidence on the matter. Otherwise, well....
Yes, multiple times. I was even a beta tester for OCZ at one point. I've secure erased and reinstalled windows 7 at least 8 times trying all the nonsense that OCZ came up with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasimojo View Post
You're the only one belittling anyone here. I haven't even received my OCZ drive yet, so I really can't say how "great" it might be. I also never once suggested they should not buy an M4 or Intel drive. I merely advised them to do some research of their own, and not discount the SandForce drives based purely on word of mouth. Surely if they're such terrible products, even a cursory perusal of a few hardware review sites will confirm that, right?.
Quite simply, no. Review sites don't do enough with the drives to see it. When the bsod bug first came around and the OCZ forum was filling up with complaints, I was sitting there wondering what all these people did wrong to cause it. It was literally 3 weeks to the day that I saw my first bsod on firmware 2.06 and there have been others that it took over a month to manifest.

My apologies for the belittling comment. It was out of line. But I don't agree with anyone playing down the seriousness and frequency of the bug. It's caused too many people problems who don't really have the tech knowledge or time to be trying all of the "fixes" that didn't work from OCZ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasimojo View Post
One more point I might mention is that I have yet to read a review from a hardware site that experienced any problems at all during all their extensive testing. I'm not saying the problem doesn't exist - it most certainly does, and it sucks for those who run into it. I hope I'm not one of them. It's just a less frequent issue than it's perceived to be is all.
Anandtech not only could ran into the bsod bug but was able to reproduce it. That's why Sandforce flew a tech down to examine his computer.

I can't agree with the issue being less frequent statement. OCZ/Sandforce released a firmware a month for 6 months trying to fix it. The bug exists in every single drive out there, it's just a matter of whether you have the right set of circumstances to run into it.

I would suggest that when you get your Agility, run the update to 2.15 right away. At this point, I believe it finally is fixed.
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post #39 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcg75 View Post
But you choose Agility 3 when a bunch of other ssd could have given you the same everyday performance for less money and you'd only see a difference in benchmarks. All I'm trying to say here is that the logic you applied saying you can only see a difference in benchmarks can also be applied back to you or any of us.
$1.04/GB, that's why. Show me another 120GB+ SSD that offers a better value, and I'll kick myself for not buying it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcg75 View Post
My apologies for the belittling comment. It was out of line. But I don't agree with anyone playing down the seriousness and frequency of the bug. It's caused too many people problems who don't really have the tech knowledge or time to be trying all of the "fixes" that didn't work from OCZ.
That's fair. We can agree to disagree regarding whether or not negative hype had anything to do with the perceived number of people who had the problem. As always, caveat emptor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcg75 View Post
I can't agree with the issue being less frequent statement. OCZ/Sandforce released a firmware a month for 6 months trying to fix it. The bug exists in every single drive out there, it's just a matter of whether you have the right set of circumstances to run into it.
Which actually supports what I've been saying. It's true that SandForce took a few wrong turns, thinking (perhaps just hoping) they had the bug worked out. If the bug were *that* prevalent, don't you think they would have been able to reproduce it reliably and then know for sure when they had it corrected? The right set of circumstances just wasn't as common as it seems. In my research I've gotten the distinct impression that for every one person on various forums warning people away from SandForce from personal experience, there are several who simply go on to repeat what those people have said, never having experienced the problem, themselves. That's kind of the nature of the internet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcg75 View Post
I would suggest that when you get your Agility, run the update to 2.15 right away. At this point, I believe it finally is fixed.
You know that's right. I would recommend that on any drive.

Regards.
post #40 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasimojo View Post
Which actually supports what I've been saying. It's true that SandForce took a few wrong turns, thinking (perhaps just hoping) they had the bug worked out. If the bug were *that* prevalent, don't you think they would have been able to reproduce it reliably and then know for sure when they had it corrected? The right set of circumstances just wasn't as common as it seems. In my research I've gotten the distinct impression that for every one person on various forums warning people away from SandForce from personal experience, there are several who simply go on to repeat what those people have said, never having experienced the problem, themselves. That's kind of the nature of the internet.
For me, both bsod on 2.06 happened while surfing the web. My bsod on 2.08 happened when playing fallout new vegas. Anand discovered his while running benchmarks. I don't know what the common denominator was and I'm doubtful Sandforce will ever tell us.

We will have to agree to disagree. I believe the bug effected far more people than OCZ let on. And even if the bsod rate was only 1 in 10, would it make you feel good to see hours of work or gaming lost by the bsod occuring when you were saving the file and corrupting it? That's what happened to me, luckily my loss was 6 only hours of New Vegas.

The only thing that kept Sandforce digging at this problem was for people to continuously share the bug information and not recommend sf2281 drives. If people went and said there's a very slim chance, we'd still have the bug today with no end in sight.
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