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[ExtremeTech] Analyzing Bulldozer: Why AMD’s chip is so disappointing - Page 22

post #211 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by catharsis View Post
Acutally the core i3's are great processors for the money too. although I do like bobcat and llano.
Yeah, but compared to Phenom II and Athlon II they're generally a flop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steak House View Post
Typical, when you back yourself into a hole - start with the personal attacks...
He's not in a hole, he's provided proof for his points.
    
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post #212 of 292
how can i be disappointed.
it runs all the apps i care about pretty damn well.
it games just fine too, and i cant tell squat between 60fps or 120fps.

all this while being cheaper than 2600k and looking this good?


DSC04122 by ᵿ, on Flickr
post #213 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocturin View Post
Why does the 8120 w/ lower clock beat the 8150 w/ higher clock.

That is odd.

---
Wait... wat?
BD Succeeding in a benchmark?

DOO WHAT?
kind of wierd that its a 30% improvement over every other cpu in that chart at a minimum. Which leads one to ask the question. Why do .net c# apps that use SSE2 perform so much better on the Bulldozer core.
post #214 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by jivenjune View Post
It is a niche product for the following reasons:

1. It isn't a mainstream product since it's an 8-core processor priced too high to be directed at the general consumer.
that makes 2600 a niche product too.

Quote:
2. It isn't targeted at PC enthusiasts because it is too expensive for the amount of performance given, especially when compared to the Thuban or Sandy Bridge series.
noone in their right mind would target us. we dont even exist as a statistic in market.

Quote:
3. It isn't directed at the server market since it simply uses too much energy to be an efficient product for servers
wrong.

energy efficiency is not the foremost concern for servers. it doesnt matter how much energy you are saving, if a box/blade you are hosting a website gets clogged at a crucial time. (slashdotted ?). always performance comes first. cooling, can be taken care afterwards.

Quote:
So, what is it aimed at? Well, most people say it doesn't really have a clear place in the market and thus a niche product..
people like graphics professionals, web designers, or others who can use its multithreading performance ? or, ANYone who are encrypting their entire drives with truecrypt in their right mind ?
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post #215 of 292
Quote:
kind of wierd that its a 30% improvement over every other cpu in that chart at a minimum. Which leads one to ask the question. Why do .net c# apps that use SSE2 perform so much better on the Bulldozer core.
The Intel C compiler was most likely not used .
post #216 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by unity100 View Post
that makes 2600 a niche product too.



noone in their right mind would target us. we dont even exist as a statistic in market.



wrong.

energy efficiency is not the foremost concern for servers. it doesnt matter how much energy you are saving, if a box/blade you are hosting a website gets clogged at a crucial time. (slashdotted ?). always performance comes first. cooling, can be taken care afterwards.



people like graphics professionals, web designers, or others who can use its multithreading performance ? or, ANYone who are encrypting their entire drives with truecrypt in their right mind ?
This quote from another thread sums it up nicely:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vengeance47 View Post
But as I said in another thread, the FX-8150 doesn't cater to anyone.

Its not an enthusiast level chip since SB-E, highend X58 and even 2500k/2600k perform better in most cases.

It's not midrange because its single core and core clock performance is abysmal and 90% of people (and almost 100% of average joe's) only use applications utilising up to four cores. Almost no one who buys a mainstream CPU uses >Quad threaded applications (a very small minority). So its not mid-range.

Its not a low range chip because of its price.

Finally, its not an enterprise level chip because even though in > quad threaded applications it is faster than an i7 2600k, the absolutely absurd power draw rules it out of contention. Especially if one was to setup a render farm running FX-8150 setups 24/7 for weeks on end. Efficiency is very important in the enterprise market place. So even if an i7 2600k is say 20% slower, it consumes around 50% less power? So enterprise is gonna go for the SB over the BD pretty much any day of the week.

So really, AMD aren't targeting anything with the FX-8150. Its essentially a "nothing" chip. It doesn't do anying well enough to fit anywhere. As I said before, it doesn't perform high enough to be enthusiast, its single thread and core clock performance is woeful which rules it out for mum and dad use when the same price Intel will pwn the poop out of the FX8150 for their needs, its too expensive for low-end use and finally, its MUCH too inefficient to be an option for enterprise.

Sure, the price discrepency between Intels enterprise chips and AMD's is quite large, but when you are running 100% load, or very close to, for days/weeks/months on end. The efficiency of the Intel's pay themselves off EXTREMELY quickly. Not to mention, in a server room, with the stupid power draw of BD can you imagine how damn hot it would get in there? Cooling server rooms is a big issue, so going with a more efficient, cooler running yet more expensive product is the choice they will make. Especially when the more expensive product will pay itself off in a matter of months for most big businesses.

So no, AMD aren't targeting any market with the FX-8150. Its completely pointless
It really has no clear place. The 4 and 6 core version are completely useless, as they have all of the drawbacks of Zambezi without any of the benefits over their predecessors (they sacrificed a lot to cram more cores in the die, and you take out some of the cores, so you're just left with the sacrifices). As for the 8 core, there are very few places where it would be a good solution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post
Again, you're taking things entirely out of context--plus you clearly don't understand what a niche market is.

Let me explain my statement. Computer hardware enthusiasts are generally interested and excited about top-end performance. No one will deny that BD doesn't deliver top-end performance. Ergo people on OCN (the computer enthusiast community) wouldn't be interested in having one except just to play with it. Where in my statement was I addressing people outside of the OCN demographic? And where in my statement was I stating that BD is not useful/applicable outside of the OCN demographic?

If anything, I would argue that things computer hardware enthusiasts are most excited about are niche items--items less and less applicable to the general public's general computing demands.

But that doesn't make BD a "niche product" just because computer hardware enthusiasts see that it isn't the top-end performer. If anything, it makes it even more mainstream.
So then what exactly is niche then? It has such a small, specific market, and its somehow not niche?

i7 EEs are a niche product as well. BD is a niche product. They dug themselves into that role. Mainstream users do not need a plethora of cores. What is more important to mainstream users is IPC, as they will hardly ever push their processors to their max on all cores. Few programs take advantage of a lot of cores, and the lower core count chips are completely useless since they get outperformed by their predecessors. For gaming it is a waste of money as well. Not to say that it can't do these things, but there are cheaper options that perform these roles better. It has very few places where it excells, and many where it is outperformed by cheaper options. What else do you want to call it niche?
    
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post #217 of 292
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Originally Posted by pony-tail View Post
The Intel C compiler was most likely not used .
Which then raises a whole bunch of new questions.Why does sse2 work so much better on .net/C# and figuring that out might be the key to really making BD a more viable platform. I really don't know if the spec rendering results are consistent across more .net/C3 apps, because I don't have a cpu to test with etc.
post #218 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by unity100 View Post
that makes 2600 a niche product too.
Wrong. While the i7 2600 (not K series) may cost a bit more than the 8150, the extra amount you spend above it is justified since it excels not just in single threaded applications but also in multi-threaded applications. The IGP attached to Sandy Bridge processors also makes it situated more toward the standard consumer who doesn't know or want to have to purchase a discrete graphics processor.

With Bulldozer on the other hand, you generally sacrifice single threaded performance for multi-threaded performance and even then, the Thuban processor is a much better bang for the buck when considering the price.


Quote:
noone in their right mind would target us. we dont even exist as a statistic in market.
Really? If anything, almost all of AMDs advertising is directed at enthusiasts. Why go through such an extent to hit the top Ghz on a processor with extreme cooling methods, plaster the results all over the web, then brag about the overclocking results if the marketing isn't aimed directly at enthusiasts? These are areas which only enthusiasts would particularly care about. If anything, the Bulldozer series of processors is aimed at almost nothing but enthusiasts when examining it from a marketing perspective.

Quote:
energy efficiency is not the foremost concern for servers. it doesnt matter how much energy you are saving, if a box/blade you are hosting a website gets clogged at a crucial time. (slashdotted ?). always performance comes first. cooling, can be taken care afterwards.
I don't even know where to start here aside from the notion that you are either trolling or intentionally spreading misinformation for your own self-interests. One of the biggest concerns in terms of servers is the amount of energy they are using. Why? Because using a ton of energy is equivalent to losing money. Investing in a powerful yet energy efficient processor eliminates any practicality that Bulldozer has in a server market.

Quote:
people like graphics professionals, web designers, or others who can use its multithreading performance ? or, ANYone who are encrypting their entire drives with truecrypt in their right mind ?
While I agree that Bulldozer has potential in multi-threaded applications, so does the Thuban at a much more agreeable price point. It's also much more energy efficient and does not completely sacrifice single threaded performance in exchange for multi-threaded.

Why pay such a large amount of money only to exchange one for the other and even then only exceed it by a marginal amount?
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post #219 of 292
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Originally Posted by Wishmaker View Post
Then why didn't NETBURST succeed? Why did INTEL take the DOTHAN template for Conroe? Just because a brand new architecture is promoted and performs horribly in the beginning, it does not mean it will be viable in the future. It is a 50 50 chance. If in 3 years this new AMD architecture fails, they will have to design a new one. At the moment AMD pumps more cores and high clocks. INTEL pumped higher clocks and larger cache. To say with certainty that the BD arch will succeed is wishful thinking.
I don't think your post has anything to do with what you quoted.
post #220 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

I'm a bit late but I had nothing else to do just now so I ran Cinebench to compare results with that chart with I found to be incorrect.

I turned turbo off and set my 2600k to stock speeds and got the following results:

Multi-core: 6.64 pts
Single-core: 1.39 pts

Most of you won't care but that chart rubbed me the wrong way.
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