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[ExtremeTech] Analyzing Bulldozer: Why AMD’s chip is so disappointing - Page 24

post #231 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by DayoftheGreek View Post
So when Bulldozer performs worse per core than pretty much every modern Intel chip, everyone yells, "It's not about performance per core, it's about actual overall performance!"

But when it consumes power comparable (stock mind you) to a 6 core, all of sudden it isn't about overall power consumption, it's about power consumption per core. Not to mention the 6 core blows the BD out of the water in absolutely every way imaginable. It's a stupid comparison because of the price difference, but hey, you brought it up.

So basically you can look at it like this:
Does it paint a pretty picture for AMD? If no, multiple or divide by the number of cores accordingly. If yes, brag about 8 cores. AWWWW YEAHHHH.

Did I even mention performance? People say it uses too much power and I pointed out its actually in line with how many cores it has and its node...
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post #232 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by DayoftheGreek View Post
So when Bulldozer performs worse per core than pretty much every modern Intel chip, everyone yells, "It's not about performance per core, it's about actual overall performance!"

But when it consumes power comparable (stock mind you) to a 6 core, all of sudden it isn't about overall power consumption, it's about power consumption per core. Not to mention the 6 core blows the BD out of the water in absolutely every way imaginable. It's a stupid comparison because of the price difference, but hey, you brought it up.

So basically you can look at it like this:
Does it paint a pretty picture for AMD? If no, multiple or divide by the number of cores accordingly. If yes, brag about 8 cores. AWWWW YEAHHHH.

Looking at the power consumption charts here http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1741/17/, the only time the 8150 is ahead of a 990x in power consumption is in a Hawx 2 gaming benchmark--otherwise it's under the 990x in power consumption for all of the other benchmarks (prime95, handbrake, and idle).

The phenom II 980 X4 consumes about as much power as the 990x--why isn't its' power consumption an issue?
    
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post #233 of 292
It's confusing when it comes to market BD was being marketed too.

Conceptualize for a moment: think the cupcake was mainstream, and the cherry on top was supposed to be the enthusiast segment.

EDIT: that cherry represents the self-centered enthusiast community that imagines that a giant corporation releases chips for >10% of the overall mainstream market. This does NOT include OEM sales.
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post #234 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by tout View Post
You are welcome to your opinion, as we are to ours. I am also of the mindset that you guys constantly posting negativity in these Bulldozer threads are merely trolls. The content of your posts tend to prove my theory. You can't seem to allow for others to have their own ideas and needs that do not correlate with your own.

Bulldozer is for enthusiasts based on the fact it overclocks like mad. 'Computer Enthusiasts' also like to tweak their system performance in a myriad of ways, they tend to tinker with their computers constantly, never satisfied with the last settings. They also tend to do lot's of encoding. All of these things Bulldozer does extremely well.

You linked to a hierarchy of CPUs for gaming. What kind of uneducated consumer would purchase an 8 core CPU for gaming?
If I use his logic, and if feel that a 2500k/2600k/2700k are of no use to me--does that mean they're of no use to anyone else? Clearly not... But unlike their responses so far, I can at least intelligently see that BD's, 2500k's, 2600k's, 2700k's are of use to others.

I have no agenda to get everyone to go out and buy a BD CPU. I couldn't care less if people did. I just wish people would stop talking about BD's as if they can't boot to a windows screen, or do anything that any typical user needs to do.

I can still see how they are of use to others. The same situation is the case for the other end of the spectrum--an intel atom has no use to me--yet it is very useful and relevant to others. A BD chip has relevance to me based on the fact that it can do anything to satisfy my computer processing requirements (though it would be nice if the prices of them dropped by $20-40). As does an i5-2500. As does a Thuban X6. They all do the same things to the same extent.
    
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post #235 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocturin View Post
It's confusing when it comes to market BD was being marketed too.

Conceptualize for a moment: think the cupcake was mainstream, and the cherry on top was supposed to be the enthusiast segment.

EDIT: that cherry represents the self-centered enthusiast community that imagines that a giant corporation releases chips for >10% of the overall mainstream market. This does NOT include OEM sales.
There is a better Cupcake down the street for less money.
post #236 of 292
You also have to realize that Bulldozer is not just the FX 8150 and 8120 CPU. There's the 6100 and 4100 (and more to come next year) which are both significantly cheaper and are aimed at the mainstream populace. Especially the $129 FX 4100. Once that price drops to about $100 it will be a great value.
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post #237 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by tout View Post
you also have to realize that bulldozer is not just the fx 8150 and 8120 cpu. there's the 6100 and 4100 (and more to come next year) which are both significantly cheaper and are aimed at the mainstream populace. Especially the $129 fx 4100. Once that price drops to about $100 it will be a great value.

bam!
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post #238 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by tout View Post
You are welcome to your opinion, as we are to ours. I am also of the mindset that you guys constantly posting negativity in these Bulldozer threads are merely trolls. The content of your posts tend to prove my theory. You can't seem to allow for others to have their own ideas and needs that do not correlate with your own.

Bulldozer is for enthusiasts based on the fact it overclocks like mad. 'Computer Enthusiasts' also like to tweak their system performance in a myriad of ways, they tend to tinker with their computers constantly, never satisfied with the last settings. They also tend to do lot's of encoding. All of these things Bulldozer does extremely well.

You linked to a hierarchy of CPUs for gaming. What kind of uneducated consumer would purchase an 8 core CPU for gaming?
Precisely, they wouldn't - The 8 Cores are targeted for Computer Enthusiast. I would recommend an Intel 2500K for gaming. This beats anything AMD has to offer.
post #239 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post
Most haven't touched 1155 after initial results because it 1) hits an architectural limit around 5.7-5.8 (Even though nearly any board and chip should theoretically be able to hit 5.88Ghz) and 2) isn't as fun to OC compared to say, Phenom II. You can't tweak as much for every drip of performance.

I'll actually use my system at 5GHz 24/7 while the extreme OC'ers you speak of can bench their PII's on LN2 and accomplish nothing.

An OC you can't use everyday is pretty pointless.
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post #240 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steak House View Post
My question to him, that he refuses to answer, is who was BD aimed at if not "Computer Enthusiasts"?
Workstations and Servers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steak House View Post
BD is a Flop - Plain And Simple.

More Evidence From Tom'sHardware -

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ng,3052-5.html

Per that chart, AMD is 2 or 3 years behind Intel in regards to performance. Why should anyone invest in that?

Now that he is once again confronted with facts, I am sure he will start the personal attacks - you're all ignorant, trolls, etc. etc.
Gaming charts...Not photoshop, etc which is what he's been stating BD is good at. Read what he said and actually comment on that. And for the love of god, do not use TH, they're the worst review site on the internet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tout View Post
You linked to a hierarchy of CPUs for gaming. What kind of uneducated consumer would purchase an 8 core CPU for gaming?
QFT.

Who needs a good CPU for gaming in any way? My rig with its 5 year old CPU at stock speeds (2.6Ghz) is capable of maxing out BF3 with 4x AA at 1080p and only minor stutter! And I haven't installed the BF3 drivers yet, either.

Heck, if it wasn't for the fact I actually need as many cores as I can get my hands on for transcoding videos and music, I'd just get a Gigabyte EP45-UD3R, OC my chip a bit and be happy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steak House View Post
All the Hype, the Years of development - and you're saying that if it Boots Windows up - It's Good. If that's all you need then fine. That said, I have yet to see a situation/application/program where you wouldn't be better off with Intel.


(Handbrake, specifically, the 990X wins but it costs so much that it's hardly worth it)
(CPU Hash, specifically)

You're welcome, not that you'll reply to this..Although if you do, there will be some magic to make all these results invalid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steak House View Post
And now per Tom's Hardware - There are much better alternatives...
The same site that said the P4 was better than the Athlon64.

And, as you can see in my sig, is biased to CoolerMaster PSUs and act as mature as children when someone brings it up.

Yeah, great site to go off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wuttz View Post
again, easy to ignore the overclocking argument because it doesnt support your argument. fact is, AMD has clock speed world records. intel is still cold bugged. wheres that process superiority now? have you read how much SB degrades much faster at high loads than even 45nm phenom2?
To be fair, you'll hit the CPUs limit on both chips well before you hit a voltage limit on AMD or architecture limit on SB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sintricate View Post
I'll actually use my system at 5GHz 24/7 while the extreme OC'ers you speak of can bench their PII's on LN2 and accomplish nothing.

An OC you can't use everyday is pretty pointless.
True enough, it's still a lot funner to clock a Phenom II rig than an SB rig, while still being easy enough if you want it to be.
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