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[ExtremeTech] Analyzing Bulldozer: Why AMD’s chip is so disappointing - Page 9

post #81 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaker View Post
A lot of Shoulda Woulda Coulda. AMD has always been the victim in this game. If it is not INTEL, it is NVIDIA, etc. AMD is the 6 year old bullied by the 16 year olds. We should all buy BD because AMD loves us and don't care about the money. They live off our happiness! AMD plays fair everyone else cheats, etc.

Whenever there is a problem with an AMD chip, 100 excuses show up and try to tell you to shut one eye and buy it. When INTEL does not perform, overpriced POS! ... Love how this whole thing works
I honestly wouldn't tell my worst enemy to buy a BD and I have bought AMD for years.
post #82 of 292
Guy,

Quote:
It's just that no one wants to sift through it all, and it paints an unfortunate picture.
The problem with that viewpoint is that I'm actually a reviewer. While the BD piece I wrote for ET isn't a full review, you can bet I read every major review of the chip before I did my own tests. Outside this instance, I've written more CPU reviews than I can honestly recall.

As a reviewer, it's my duty to find a group of tests that accurately reflect the CPU's performance in "real world scenarios." Good reviewers don't run a list of pre-approved tests from Intel or AMD, they conduct independent analysis to determine what benchmarks best highlight the performance of any given chip.

Are there some tests where Bulldozer shines? Sure. Heck, BD does well in the Maxwell Render test I included in my own article. Does it match Sandy Bridge or Thuban in terms of price/performance? No. The fact that you can find some tests where the chip does well doesn't mean it's a good value.
post #83 of 292
i think BD needs to mature as an architecture before i make my conclusion on it. Granted my next upgrade will be a 2700k. but after that PD and IB will prolly both be out and ill have a better stance on BD.
post #84 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigiHound View Post
Guy,



The problem with that viewpoint is that I'm actually a reviewer. While the BD piece I wrote for ET isn't a full review, you can bet I read every major review of the chip before I did my own tests. Outside this instance, I've written more CPU reviews than I can honestly recall.

As a reviewer, it's my duty to find a group of tests that accurately reflect the CPU's performance in "real world scenarios." Good reviewers don't run a list of pre-approved tests from Intel or AMD, they conduct independent analysis to determine what benchmarks best highlight the performance of any given chip.

Are there some tests where Bulldozer shines? Sure. Heck, BD does well in the Maxwell Render test I included in my own article. Does it match Sandy Bridge or Thuban in terms of price/performance? No. The fact that you can find some tests where the chip does well doesn't mean it's a good value.
I wasn't speaking to your specific inquiries on the hardware (on the contrary, I'm talking more toward the general masses that do not go through all the data).

But here's the thing--let's say I care about gaming performance--let's take the example of Crysis 2 performance since there was a review result for it. An 8210 virtually matches the gaming performance of a 2600k--how is that not a good value when it's $100 less than the 2600k?
    
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post #85 of 292
Quote:
I honestly wouldn't tell my worst enemy to buy a BD and I have bought AMD for years.
I would not recommend a BD to anyone either in it's current state .
I bought a Thuban instead !
post #86 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post
I wasn't speaking to your specific inquiries on the hardware (on the contrary, I'm talking more toward the general masses that do not go through all the data).

But here's the thing--let's say I care about gaming performance--let's take the example of Crysis 2 performance since there was a review result for it. An 8210 virtually matches the gaming performance of a 2600k--how is that not a good value when it's $100 less than the 2600k?
wait, wat?

No way!

---
why?
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post #87 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocturin View Post
wait, wat?

No way!

---
why?
Yes. http://www.guru3d.com/article/amd-fx...ance-review/10

Authors state that it's not gpu-limited (though I'm not sure--but it begs the question--with a gtx580, does it matter?). Only at very low resolutions does the weakness of the CPU actually manifest.

Results everyone cares about yet no one wants to look at...
    
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post #88 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaker View Post
A lot of Shoulda Woulda Coulda. AMD has always been the victim in this game. If it is not INTEL, it is NVIDIA, etc. AMD is the 6 year old bullied by the 16 year olds. We should all buy BD because AMD loves us and don't care about the money. They live off our happiness! AMD plays fair everyone else cheats, etc.
yes. actually its precisely that.

intel has officially stated that it wants to incorporate chip-built drm in order to 'deliver better content in a better way to customers'. which means, well, drm, on behalf of OTHER private interests, than any technology company. and probably more. even the remote killswitch.

it officially intends to hurt our freedoms.

intel has frauded, got sentenced, and now selling us expensive cpus because it was able to get away with undermining its competitor.

it hurts our wallet.

these are serious considerations. i dont want a company which is intending to limit what i do with MY computer, nomatter how and why, take the upper hand in anything. intel is a born and raised american company, with american business culture and perception, and it is way too chummy with the private interests that seek to limit people's freedoms for their own profit, or the government wanting to do it for its own control. currently there is a lot of talk for implementing hardware-inbuilt identification schemes for 'better security on internet', and intel is the coziest manufacturer to be amenable to accepting this kind of bastardry.

there would be nothing preventing intel from dressing us with in-built drm, remote killswitches, and god knows what, if there isnt a viable competitor to itself.

and any sane individual who has two brain cells, would want that. it would be stupid.

Quote:
Whenever there is a problem with an AMD chip, 100 excuses show up and try to tell you to shut one eye and buy it. When INTEL does not perform, overpriced POS! ... Love how this whole thing works
its probably more like that you are rather young or have not seen your fair share of how life works. then you would not be making your decisions on how things look right NOW, but, how do they look into the near future.

short sightedness harms future.
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post #89 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Track View Post
Yeah, but that was a very long time ago and Intel had no competition, i.e. no reason to better themselves.

AMD had the time, the resources, the incentive..

And we get this.

It's like.. how can their GPU side be so clever while their CPU side is as dumb as needles.
Regardless, INTEL still holds the honor of putting out the biggest fail in electronics history. Well as far as computers are concerned.

Regarding your "long ago" statement, yeah Intel had no competition until AMD handed them their ass with the K8's.

As for your "time, resources, and incentive statement", I suppose you fail to realize that AMD's YEARLY budget is less than what Intel spends in one month.
In all honesty, Intel is the failboat, with such a huge budget they're only putting out chips that are, relatively speaking, marginally faster than AMD. That's pretty sad IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riou View Post
Yeah, that Williamette P4 was terrible. The Northwood P4 gained some respectability back just to be tarnished by Prescott once again.
Lol the Willamette, I still have one, and it still works to this day. It wasn't horrible per se, it just wasn't great either. With a GF3 and 512 RDRAM, I could play CS (not source or 1.6) and Quake 3 maxed out. And oddly enough, it was the one chip that Windows ME ran "good" on.
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post #90 of 292
Guy,

I'm going to accept the Crysis 2 results at face value. Let's assume they're accurate and show competitive performance correctly.

Let's check the gaming results on Anandtech and Tech Report. I'm not claiming these are the only two good reviews, mind you--just touching on them as representative. Tech Report tests Battlefield: Bad Company 2 (FPS), F1 2010 (driving), Civ V, and Metro 2033. In BF:BC2 and Civ V, the 2600K is 16% and 37.5% faster. In F1 2010 and Metro 2033, the differences are in the 2-3 fps range--so we'll call those a tie.

Anandtech shows the chips tying in Civ V (I can't explain why). We'll call that a wash. In Crysis: Warhead and Dawn of War II, however, the FX-8150 takes a serious beating. It competes well in the GPU-bound Dirt 3, but lags the 2600K badly in a game like Dragon Age.

As you've noted, readers want to be able to draw simple, clear conclusions. Looking at these results, I'd say sure--there are times when BD is just as fast as other chips. In some cases, it's just as fast as other chips when the game *isn't* clearly GPU-bound.

But if you were to ask me, "What chip should I buy if I want guaranteed high performance?" I'd tell you to buy a 2600K (assuming the 8150 and 2600K were your only options, since those are the two chips we're talking about.)

Why?

Because I can't tell you which games BD is going to run well, and which it won't. I can't predict how performance will look in one game vs. another. BD *can* offer high performance--but there's no way to tell if it will or not until you've tested the game.
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