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[EG]DICE talks next-gen Xbox and PS4 - Page 5

post #41 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post
What confuses me is why they're still thinking in terms of separate processors and graphics cards, when it's clear that through llano, the idea of discrete and separate components is no longer the norm--or rather, it's no longer necessary--and that very decent performance can already be achieved in desktops and laptops with relatively little effort. I don't know why they wouldn't be more interested in that, especially given that costs can be SIGNIFICANTLY lower utilizing a hybrid die design as opposed to separate discrete cpu's and gpu cards.
I don't think Llano would make any sense at all right now for consoles, with the simple reason that Global Foundries would not be able to keep up with that extra demand. They're having trouble on 32nm as is.
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post #42 of 65
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Originally Posted by Banzai¥ View Post
I don't see a crossfire setup being the best idea for a console. As it was said before, there could me instability with some games and the need for dual GPUs could be considerably hot due to the consoles small form-factor.
I can agree with heat (though I would hope that Microsoft have a better colling method this time around to be honest), but instability I don't agree with. It's not like a PC where you have to cater to many different setups and then tack CrossFireX support on afterward with a CAP. You're catering to one setup with the architecture in mind as you program the game. Some form of dual GPU chipset could be viable. Console game development is a completely different proccess to PC game development.

Quote:
I see AMDs new 7000 series being designed for retail and console use (Preferably, their higher-ranged cards for next-gen consoles.) The 5770 series itself isn't a huge step over a 4800 series card (Whether or not the Wii-U will go with a 4850 or higher.) I'm also expecting DDR4 to be in next-gen consoles, around 2-4gb.
I think you're setting the bar too high. You need to think about cost aswell. Throwing in a 7 series (which isn't even out yet) and DDR4 would not be cost effective. Remember this is a console that is in development now. I would like to think they already have an idea of what hardware they want to use already.

Certainly not impossible, but not really a neccessity. Also remember that the GPU, while based on a specific chip, would also be custom built for the console so let's not think exactly how a chip may perform for a PC, but how it would perform for a console.

Quote:
I just hope next-gen consoles can support 30-60fps at native 1080p with support for 2560p at 30fps and possibly having eyefinity resolution support (I would love to see Sony adopt single eyefinity television/monitor solutions alongside other Companies.)
Believe it or not current generation consoles already can do native 1080p (several games display in native 1080p) and multiple monitor setups (Forza). I get what you are saying though. It's something that needs to be a standard.

I'm standing by 5 series. While 6 series or above based GPU would be pretty awesome I don't think it's really a neccessity for a console. As long as it supports DX11 equivalent. I don't think they'll use more than 2gb of RAM either (Xbox 360 has like 512mb, lol). We'll soon see though. If it exceeds my expectations and is still affordable it will make me a very happy gamer, haha.
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post #43 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifeshield View Post
I think you're setting the bar too high. You need to think about cost aswell. Throwing in a 7 series (which isn't even out yet) and DDR4 would not be cost effective. Remember this is a console that is in development now. I would like to think they already have an idea of what hardware they want to use already.

I'm standing by 5 series. While 6 series or above based GPU would be pretty awesome I don't think it's really a neccessity for a console. As long as it supports DX11 equivalent. I don't think they'll use more than 2gb of RAM either (Xbox 360 has like 512mb, lol). We'll soon see though. If it exceeds my expectations and is still affordable it will make me a very happy gamer, haha.
The 6000 series already has cheap mid-high ranged cards that perform better than their previous 5000 series for less heat and power requirements. The 7000 series is believed to be more directed towards OEM retailers, as to your conclusion that the 7000 series isn't probable because they figured it out already; the consoles aren't expected to be released until 2013 at least, which would mean 'they' already made a deal with AMD to use a custom built GPU that is initially launching between the end of this year and the beginning of next year (With the 7600 series being the last release of the series for a while.)
As for DDR4, I think 2gb would still be used, possibly 4 (Hell, they may end up having more upgrade paths then just changing the HDD, although not too challenging for consumers.)
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post #44 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeles View Post
I don't think Llano would make any sense at all right now for consoles, with the simple reason that Global Foundries would not be able to keep up with that extra demand. They're having trouble on 32nm as is.
Hmm...I had not considered that... That's a good point. I wonder, though, how much of their output is a cost-benefit thing vs. an actual capacity issue? i.e., could production be improved with a business commitment from major console retailer(s)? Or perhaps they are at the limit of their production capacity already? I don't know much about the situation.
    
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post #45 of 65
Hopefully whatever CPU/GPUs are chosen for the next-gen consoles, they're something the Fabs can reliably make. I'm guessing that going with Intel would've been too expensive, but they do seem to have their manufacturing process down pretty good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifeshield View Post
Believe it or not current generation consoles already can do native 1080p (several games display in native 1080p) and multiple monitor setups (Forza). I get what you are saying though. It's something that needs to be a standard.

I'm standing by 5 series. While 6 series or above based GPU would be pretty awesome I don't think it's really a neccessity for a console. As long as it supports DX11 equivalent. I don't think they'll use more than 2gb of RAM either (Xbox 360 has like 512mb, lol). We'll soon see though. If it exceeds my expectations and is still affordable it will make me a very happy gamer, haha.
2GB might be a good boost initially, but 7-8 years from now that will be pretty dismal. I believe they'll go with at least 4GB, and hopefully 6-8GB. More RAM means less loading times, less hitching of framerate during loading, the capability for more players in a multiplayer game, and more objects on-screen/in-range, etc. RAM is the limiting factor in many ways with current consoles. Many thing that visual quality is all about GPU, but it's also about system RAM as well. For example a decreased draw distance also means a decreased distance at which things need to be loaded into memory. Some developers may be decreasing draw distance to get within the memory limits rather than to reduce the load on the GPU.

Also, don't think in terms of PCs. With PCs a game developer doesn't necessarily know how much free RAM a player will have, so they can't plan the architecture of the game and engine around it, but if they knew for a fact that they would have 5GB of RAM available to them at all times, they could now plan the engine to always cache game assets into the memory to improve the game experience. This can be done with a PC, but it's a lot more work to make an engine that has to work whether or not that cache exists than it is to make one that knows it exists. Someone difficult to explain in detail, but lets just say that even if the consoles come with 8GB of RAM, I think developers will find a way to use it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost2501 View Post
i will just say what everyone is thinking but console fanboys have denied for the last hmmm how long has it been since ps3 came out like 6-7 years lol, anyway who cares about how console games will look now We will finally see a bump up in quality for PC games yay~! Console fans just will not listen to reason that consoles are the lowest common denominator in game design so they suck from inception unless its a pc only game.
Some of the best games ever made have been console games.

Are you just mad that they don't care that you have faster hardware and are still having as much fun gaming as you are?
Edited by lordikon - 10/27/11 at 4:38pm
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post #46 of 65
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Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post
I think they should drop the DVD/BR drive this generation and go for a purely online marketplace, would save some room at least and even just updating the GPU portion current chip from the 360 slim and giving it at least 2GB RAM would be more than enough.
Good idea in theory, but too much of the world still doesn't have good enough broadband, if they have internet at all, thus there is still the need for a physical storage medium distribution. Granted, flash media might be cheap enough by then that there might be a possibility we see games move back to "cartridges" ie removable flash cards which would be a major upgrade to discs regardless.

Although a brilliant solution would be producing a console with a hard drive that was very hot-swappable so that if you wanted to buy a game and didn't have the means to download it yourself you could then take the drive to a store where you would buy it and they would upload it for you right there for you to then take home, plug in, and be good to go.
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post #47 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by bojinglebells View Post
Good idea in theory, but too much of the world still doesn't have good enough broadband, if they have internet at all, thus there is still the need for a physical storage medium distribution. Granted, flash media might be cheap enough by then that there might be a possibility we see games move back to "cartridges" ie removable flash cards which would be a major upgrade to discs regardless.

Although a brilliant solution would be producing a console with a hard drive that was very hot-swappable so that if you wanted to buy a game and didn't have the means to download it yourself you could then take the drive to a store where you would buy it and they would upload it for you right there for you to then take home, plug in, and be good to go.
I would prefer physical media personally. Even on PC I prefer to own a hard copy over a digital copy.
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post #48 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifeshield View Post
Remember consoles don't need to have an i7 and a 580 in them thanks to single configuration optimisation, just keep that in mind, and despite what people on this forum think about them, they look bloody good today considering just what they are pushing. People here are too worried about resolution and textures, but when you're sat upto 6 feet away from your HDTV none of that really matters. The fact that their aging hardware can actually keep up is a massive testament to just how far they can be pushed. Anyone remember Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory on the Original Xbox? Current generation graphics on a last generation system? (and it still looks good running on backwards compatibility despite it's age) Yeah. That's what I'm talking about right there.

When I think about what developers have managed to achieve on current generation consoles with their 6 year old hardware I am intrigued to see what they can pull off next generation.
This

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifeshield View Post
I would prefer physical media personally. Even on PC I prefer to own a hard copy over a digital copy.
That's exactly how I am
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post #49 of 65
When are they going to stop adding numbers to the back of these Console names and start getting creative... for Example... Nintendo, Super Nintendo, Nintendo 64, Game Cube, Wii ... am I making sense here? Even Sega did it lol... give us a NEW NAME to call these things, where has the creativity gone?
    
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post #50 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somenamehere View Post
Would be lucky if it had the GPU power of a 6570. Consoles would never be that up to date.
When you consider the fact that every console prior has matched a high-end PC of the time, you're statements just doesn't make sense.

*Newsflash* Just because you know how to build a computer, doesn't make you any more informed about console hardware. Honestly, building a PC is probably the easiest puzzle you can attempt to solve. How many pieces are there typically? 15? Wow...
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