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post #191 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbydraino View Post
Being an Aviation major, it really pains me to see the closet physicists in this thread that have no idea what they are talking about.

Besides the obvious construction and power issues, the things I see needing to be overcome:

1. Wake turbulence: Major issue, they need to most likely direct a portion of the thrust downward to make it even possible to land on without flipping. Airfoil turbulence should not be too much of an issue, since it should be straight and level while landing on it.

2. Take off: If you try and take off the opposite direction on this thing, you immediately stall unless you can get a ground speed greater than the airspeed of the craft, even then you would need to greatly exceed that. One solution would be to attach a tow rope and drag the plane behind the craft for a short while, then release. Seems like the most practical method. Again the issue of wake turbulence applies.

3. Altitude: If anything above 12k feet, all of the aircraft would need to be parked in a pressurized hanger before anyone could get out due to lack of oxygen. No commercial craft is built to maintain pressurization while attached to any sort of docking station. This can obviously be fixed fairly easily by modifying current aircraft, but still an issue no less. Also its 2 degrees Celsius colder per 1000 ft you go up (standard), so obvious air temperature issues arise if you are aiming for much higher altitudes.

Couple other things to address:

Your landing gear would NOT rip off landing on this. Lets say the craft is moving at 200kt, and you are moving at 230kt coming in for a landing. You are landing at 30kt. Simple as that. Everything is relative here guys.

That windscreen shielding the aircraft landing is more than enough to completely negate relative wind on the runway. Looking at that design, once you've passed the first quarter of the runway, the relative wind will be completely gone since it is being directed OVER the runway. Look up how air flows over an airfoil and it becomes clear very quickly. Crosswinds, wind shear, and micro-bursts will be as they are landing at any other runway.

Lots of other things to address but I won't get into it. Physically possible. In a perfect world, practical. In our world, a huge target. I don't see it ever making production, as much as I would LOVE to land on one.

And guys, its 2011. Get off that nuclear fear that people have been riding for so many years. An extremely viable technology is hampered by people like you.
I was referring to airflow, not rotation speed. Just sayin. There's a reason you can't drop the gear past a certain point.
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post #192 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbydraino View Post
Being an Aviation major, it really pains me to see the closet physicists in this thread that have no idea what they are talking about.

Besides the obvious construction and power issues, the things I see needing to be overcome:

1. Wake turbulence: Major issue, they need to most likely direct a portion of the thrust downward to make it even possible to land on without flipping. Airfoil turbulence should not be too much of an issue, since it should be straight and level while landing on it.

2. Take off: If you try and take off the opposite direction on this thing, you immediately stall unless you can get a ground speed greater than the airspeed of the craft, even then you would need to greatly exceed that. One solution would be to attach a tow rope and drag the plane behind the craft for a short while, then release. Seems like the most practical method. Again the issue of wake turbulence applies.

3. Altitude: If anything above 12k feet, all of the aircraft would need to be parked in a pressurized hanger before anyone could get out due to lack of oxygen. No commercial craft is built to maintain pressurization while attached to any sort of docking station. This can obviously be fixed fairly easily by modifying current aircraft, but still an issue no less. Also its 2 degrees Celsius colder per 1000 ft you go up (standard), so obvious air temperature issues arise if you are aiming for much higher altitudes.

Couple other things to address:

Your landing gear would NOT rip off landing on this. Lets say the craft is moving at 200kt, and you are moving at 230kt coming in for a landing. You are landing at 30kt. Simple as that. Everything is relative here guys.

That windscreen shielding the aircraft landing is more than enough to completely negate relative wind on the runway. Looking at that design, once you've passed the first quarter of the runway, the relative wind will be completely gone since it is being directed OVER the runway. Look up how air flows over an airfoil and it becomes clear very quickly. Crosswinds, wind shear, and micro-bursts will be as they are landing at any other runway.

Lots of other things to address but I won't get into it. Physically possible. In a perfect world, practical. In our world, a huge target. I don't see it ever making production, as much as I would LOVE to land on one.

And guys, its 2011. Get off that nuclear fear that people have been riding for so many years. An extremely viable technology is hampered by people like you.
Here here!

Very well said, the whole thing.
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post #193 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtHop View Post
I was referring to airflow, not rotation speed. Just sayin. There's a reason you can't drop the gear past a certain point.
Ah my fault if that's the case. Re-reading my post I realize I come off as a bit hostile. I do agree with you though that landing a plane at 700kt is a recipe for disaster.

My guess would be that this would be designed to be as slow flying as possible, somewhere in the range of 200kt. Comes fairly close to a 747's rotation speed, so the stress on the landing gear should be minimal. As for designing a craft that large that can maintain altitude at 200kt that is a whole different story. The delta wing design should help with that though.
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post #194 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbydraino View Post
Ah my fault if that's the case. Re-reading my post I realize I come off as a bit hostile. I do agree with you though that landing a plane at 700kt is a recipe for disaster.

My guess would be that this would be designed to be as slow flying as possible, somewhere in the range of 200kt. Comes fairly close to a 747's rotation speed, so the stress on the landing gear should be minimal. As for designing a craft that large that can maintain altitude at 200kt that is a whole different story. The delta wing design should help with that though.
Actually, looking at the picture again, wake turbulence might not be that big of an issue. The wings on it are so wide, that if you came in well above the thing, chances are you would never hit it.

Another issue I see looking over it is the incredibly small vertical surface area. I can see this being unstable as hell unless you doubled or maybe even tripled the stabilizer area.
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post #195 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtHop View Post
Actually, looking at the picture again, wake turbulence might not be that big of an issue. The wings on it are so wide, that if you came in well above the thing, chances are you would never hit it.

Another issue I see looking over it is the incredibly small vertical surface area. I can see this being unstable as hell unless you doubled or maybe even tripled the stabilizer area.
That's actually a good point. If approached as if you were doing a short-field landing, you may never hit it. Possibly only the wash from the wind screen, but that shouldn't be a huge issue in theory. Basically just a very exaggerated version of ground effect since you wouldn't hit it until close to the runway surface.

I assumed this would have computerized rudder stabilizers on the wings similar to the b-2 bomber that adjust based on wind conditions. If not then yeah the vertical stabilizers would have to be MUCH bigger.

Edited for clarity.
Edited by deadbydraino - 10/26/11 at 6:53pm
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post #196 of 250
I think that windscreen would be more troublesome, because you're going to get into some pretty unclean air, which would make for an incredibly bumpy ride, if not one that could upset the landing aircraft.

And, if it did have this computerized thingy that kept it stable without the rudders, why have the vertical bits out there in the first place? Looks like something good to run into.
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post #197 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtHop View Post
I think that windscreen would be more troublesome, because you're going to get into some pretty unclean air, which would make for an incredibly bumpy ride, if not one that could upset the landing aircraft.

And, if it did have this computerized thingy that kept it stable without the rudders, why have the vertical bits out there in the first place? Looks like something good to run into.
Big thing with the elevons and rudders on a b-2 is it is based off of a system that does not have a direct override. The video posted of the b-2 crashing was because one of the sensors controlling the computer for rudder adjustment freaked out and reported incorrectly, causing the plane to rotate far too soon then bank left.

The only reason the b-2 does not have vertical stabilizers is for the purpose of a small radar signature. Pretty safe to say you can't hide this huge thing, so having vertical stabilizers would help keep the plane stable, and in the event that the computer fails with the rudders/elevons, the vertical stabilizers would function as an override.

All of this is conjecture though, that's how I'd do it if I were building it.
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post #198 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by willis888 View Post
The atmosphere itself is the reaction mass. Propellers work the same way wings do. You don't need rockets pointing down to keep a plane in the air, because the atmosphere does it for you. You just need to make the wings/propellers move through the atmosphere, for example by connecting the propellers to an electric engine that gets charge from an on-board nuclear power plant.
....for the second time. Air resistance means you'll burn more fuel as opposed to in a vacuum. These won't stay in the air very long unless you use a different propulsion system or a different fuel all together.

The limiting factor to flight, by my understanding, is the amount of fuel, not the amount of energy you use to burn the fuel.
Edited by Domino - 10/26/11 at 7:27pm
post #199 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbydraino View Post
Big thing with the elevons and rudders on a b-2 is it is based off of a system that does not have a direct override. The video posted of the b-2 crashing was because one of the sensors controlling the computer for rudder adjustment freaked out and reported incorrectly, causing the plane to rotate far too soon then bank left.

The only reason the b-2 does not have vertical stabilizers is for the purpose of a small radar signature. Pretty safe to say you can't hide this huge thing, so having vertical stabilizers would help keep the plane stable, and in the event that the computer fails with the rudders/elevons, the vertical stabilizers would function as an override.

All of this is conjecture though, that's how I'd do it if I were building it.
I can't see those providing enough countering force to overcome...well, anything. It would be way too heavy for that small of a control area, especially if it is in the unclean air coming off the shield. I guess one could argue though, that even if it is unstable, it would take a huge amount of force to cause it to lose control.
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post #200 of 250
maybe for S&G's sake, it could take off of an aircraft carrier? If Alec Baldwin can pilot a B17 off one, then...or it could replace a/c's completely, even carry boats?

On a more serious note, by the time they have the ability and tech to fully build LENR, wouldnt it be a safe assumption to say they've also come up with new materials, uber strong & lightweight? Something that makes carbon fiber look like playdoh. clear aluminum, for example. just a thought.
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