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[NYTimes] The Limits of Magical Thinking - Page 3

post #21 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by girugamesh View Post
None.

And why did you even bring up "sales"? If sales means quality, then why the hell am I not a Justin Bieber fan yet?

Oh, and you know, it wasn't Jobs who made the design of their products, you know that right? And you know he didn't develop it either, right? Yeah, he always had designers, engineers and many other people working for him.

He was just the manager. And saying only he could have done what he did, is a big, grade A fallacy.
Yes. Sales, and demand, and customer acceptance, are irrelevant to product development and technological innovation. And the folks that he brought together to design Apple products would have met through networking, anyway.

Like I said, not a fanboy. I actually hate the Apple-fetish culture. But Jobs personally drove a great deal of innovation in the personal computing realm - ask the designers you mention - and got people together to help him realize his vision(s), which resulted in products which people embraced (unlike Windows Mobile, even in its current form), which drove competition in consumers' favor, and changed a lot of people's consumer technology roadmaps.

Look, sometimes not-so-great people have profound effects on our society. It happens.

And, of course, he also single-handedly saved/killed the music industry. But that's another flame-drawing post, for another thread.
post #22 of 51
Thread Starter 
God, you're all missing the point. It wasn't that his products alone changed everything -- it's that his products paved the way for intense competition in markets we all take for granted today. There wouldn't be the smartphone craze as it currently exists if it weren't for the iPhone. Android would not exist as it does today if it weren't for the iPhone. I probably saw less than 5 mp3 players at school before the iPod existed. Afterward, everyone had -- not an iPod necessarily -- some kind of mp3 player.

It's not what his products did by themselves. It's the effect they had on the culture. It's so simple to understand and yet so many people ignore it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kaxel View Post
This article was totally devoid of substance. I thought it was going to cite some concrete examples of the limits to his ingenuity, not just say, "Steve Jobs was manic depressive and socially dysfunctional."
What you mean is that it was devoid of substance that you care about. The title wasn't about how far his "magical thinking" got him in innovation or technology; it's about how even "magical thinking" can't prevent a person from being dysfunctional in various ways.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BizzareRide View Post
??? Some lady from Conn's put this PC in my hands.

Unless you're claiming that jobs was magically there... Which would be creepy.
The PC that was put in your hands by some lady from Conn's probably wouldn't exist in its current form if it weren't for the PC that Jobs put in other people's hands.
Edited by flamingoyster - 10/27/11 at 8:43am
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post #23 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by seward View Post
Yes. Sales, and demand, and customer acceptance, are irrelevant to product development and technological innovation. And the folks that he brought together to design Apple products would have met through networking, anyway.

Like I said, not a fanboy. I actually hate the Apple-fetish culture. But Jobs personally drove a great deal of innovation in the personal computing realm - ask the designers you mention - and got people together to help him realize his vision(s), which resulted in products which people embraced (unlike Windows Mobile, even in its current form), which drove competition in consumers' favor, and changed a lot of people's consumer technology roadmaps.

Look, sometimes not-so-great people have profound effects on our society. It happens.

And, of course, he also single-handedly saved/killed the music industry. But that's another flame-drawing post, for another thread.
IF you're considering only a certain portion of the tech industry, then yes, he made some difference.

Apple products are focused on functionality and aesthetics. For the masses, that may mean something.

But he did NOT change the industry as a whole, not even close. For one, I don't even like their products design, and secondly, they offer almost no freedom.

Now, that's my opinion, I know. But quit pretending he made some impact on my life, or in the lives of most of mankind.
post #24 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingoyster View Post
God, you're all missing the point. It wasn't that his products alone changed everything -- it's that his products paved the way for intense competition in markets we all take for granted today. There wouldn't be the smartphone craze as it currently exists if it weren't for the iPhone. Android would not exist as it does today if it weren't for the iPhone. I probably saw less than 5 mp3 players at school before the iPod existed. Afterward, everyone had -- not an iPod necessarily -- some kind of mp3 player.

It's not what his products did by themselves. It's the effect they had on the culture. It's so simple to understand and yet so many people ignore it.
This.
post #25 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by girugamesh View Post
IF you're considering only a certain portion of the tech industry, then yes, he made some difference.

Apple products are focused on functionality and aesthetics. For the masses, that may mean something.

But he did NOT change the industry as a whole, not even close. For one, I don't even like their products design, and secondly, they offer almost no freedom.

Now, that's my opinion, I know. But quit pretending he made some impact on my life, or in the lives of most of mankind.
Obviously he has, or you wouldn't be posting here
Edited by Iceman23 - 10/27/11 at 8:55am
post #26 of 51
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman23 View Post
Obiously he has, or you wouldn't be posting here





....




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post #27 of 51
I hate how everyone says there wouldn't be this or that if it wasn't for so and so... proof?
Can you prove someone else couldn't have or wouldn't have conceived the idea of a portable PC in your phone? I can't because I'm sure it would have come along...
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post #28 of 51
opps. wrong thread.
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post #29 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by seward View Post
Which one sold more? Which one led the way, in sales and perception, in the creation of the smartphone market - which has more or less put an expiration date on personal desktop computers (much to my chagrin)?

Tell yourself that Windows Mobile has had a fraction of the impact on the personal computing world that the iphone has had.

Just don't say it too loud, or people will think you really are crazy.

Not an Apple fanboy by any means, btw.
wait.. you said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by seward View Post
He put a pc in your hand.
not facing what you say? mmm


and all the crap mentioned.. its just the good old american way of doing bussiness/profit.. evne when youre death..

when you die you sudenly are way better human being
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post #30 of 51
Steve Jobs did very little. Dennis Ritchie should have much more media attention than this dork.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Ritchie
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