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[Wired] ARM Welcomes Windows with 64-Bit Chips - Page 4

post #31 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCollins View Post
X86 kills arm in throughput, because arm is very stripped down low power design. to make arm as powerful as x86, would pretty much kill the whole low power ideology behind the design.

For many tasks though and a good gpgpu strategy I could see ARM making some inroads in very specifically tasked devices. I think x86 will fix power consumption and battery technology will improve long before arm gets powerful enough to compete in the x86 space.
You mean x86 is CISC and ARM is RISC

x86 is evolving into RISC and ARM is evolving to CISC which is pretty funny

x86-> aiming to become more power efficient
ARM -> aiming to become more powerful
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post #32 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCollins View Post
X86 kills arm in throughput, because arm is very stripped down low power design. to make arm as powerful as x86, would pretty much kill the whole low power ideology behind the design.

For many tasks though and a good gpgpu strategy I could see ARM making some inroads in very specifically tasked devices. I think x86 will fix power consumption and battery technology will improve long before arm gets powerful enough to compete in the x86 space.
x86 is faster because processors use a lot of tricks to get more performance like wider decoders, deeper pipes, path prediction, larger caches, faster/wider memory, out-of-order execution, ect. All these little tricks to add up in power consumption.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post
Considering how little power smartphone ARM CPUs with a, what, 2W TDP(?) consume and how little heat they generate... just imagine a 125W ARM CPU. Watch it overclock past 10GHz on air (or, hell, be at that speed stock).

But, correct me if I'm wrong, don't ARM CPUs have much worse IPC than even Bulldozer?

EDIT: yeah, um, my iPhone with one ARM core at 1GHz scored ~400 in Geekbench whereas my 2.26GHz C2D-based MacBook Pro scored ~3400... get those clock speeds near well past 10GHz on a quad-core and we're talking.
Smartphone CPUs use less than that.

Performance vs power consumption is not linear. Clock vs power consumption is exponential.

You can't just compare clocks because you cannot assume you can get a 10GHz ARM CPU. Intel and AMD realized that megahertz race was doomed a decade ago. So they went multicore and employ many tricks to get more work done in a clock (at the cost of power consumption).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seronx View Post
You mean x86 is CISC and ARM is RISC

x86 is evolving into RISC and ARM is evolving to CISC which is pretty funny

x86-> aiming to become more power efficient
ARM -> aiming to become more powerful
Yup, x86 gets decoded into micro-operations now anyways.
Edited by DuckieHo - 10/28/11 at 6:00pm
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post #33 of 58
x86 is a woefully bloated instruction set due to past/current efforts to increase performance and maintained legacy support.

ARM is going to have a lot of sacrifices in the tdp realm to gain ground on x86’s performance. They’re going to start adding performance oriented instructions: that allow them to complete a current n(#) clock instructions in much fewer. At the same time their die will start growing, yield will drop and prices will rise.

I am anxious to see how far they will take their designs from their original risc-oriented IPs.

Also, since they’re still a pure IP company, are they going with a single fab? (i.e. Samsung) Or multiple? And will chips vary in performance/price according to fab?
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post #34 of 58
I remember something about future NVidia cards having built in arm cores... Windows on GeForce anyone?
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post #35 of 58
Jeez, with what they do to phones, can't wait to see powerful micro servers, even for home use.
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post #36 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilhe4e12345 View Post
you know....im actually excited about this....new processor company, new competition...although some reason a part of me thinks that if the ARM processors take off, they are going to buy out AMD.....forming the company ARMADA!
i'm still fuzzy on how this will competition for intel/amd, as they are x86...most software is only made for x86...we might see a slight surge in arm software for windows 8, but this has happened before and x86 won once...not sure how this "race" will be handled differently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post
What would you run on it? Honest question.
if these are cheap enough, and the wattage is lower than that of intel/amd offerings. i could see some one build a pretty decent server farm out of these, using linux or windows 8 (assuming there is a server edition that is arm.)

but for desktop...doesn't seem like it would be a reality all that soon, as legacy software (unless it is update an a arm port it brought to it) for windows will not run (again unless windows 8 has some sort of emulator in it, but i find it hard to believe that arm cpu's out of the gate will be powerful enough to accomplish this.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie1337 View Post
Windows8 and Linux.

I was so tempted to try out a Trim-Slice but with these new designs on the way Tegra2 is really going to look old.
darn. not available in the US yet not a shabby price for it, would make a good htpc.
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post #37 of 58
64bit routers anyone?
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post #38 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transhour View Post
i'm still fuzzy on how this will competition for intel/amd, as they are x86...most software is only made for x86...we might see a slight surge in arm software for windows 8, but this has happened before and x86 won once...not sure how this "race" will be handled differently.

ARM will never have enough grunt for a cad station all by itself, coupled with a powerful opencl api though. that could be a game changer.
post #39 of 58
AMD let us down big time so these ARM guys are welcome to take their spot.
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post #40 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by hollowtek View Post
i wonder if part of ARM's strategy is to buy out AMD in the future... There's been subtle hints here and there of a full blown acquisition. I can only imagine.
More likely that they'd buy out TI/Qualcomm, someone who actually make their chips

ARM will never be 'big' unless that happens as they aren't selling directly to OEMs or the end user.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dioxholster View Post
AMD let us down big time so these ARM guys are welcome to take their spot.
ARM will never replace AMD. I never see them truly competing with Intel in the Desktop/Server markets when it comes to raw power, Intel are just too far ahead. The way I see it is; ARM have complete control of the mobile space and it will be Intel competing with them on their turf.
Edited by Polymerabbit - 10/29/11 at 5:49am
 
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