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What do you think of LLC? - Page 3

post #21 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by AyeYo View Post
It doesn't matter what kind of system it is. You can't correct a fundamental limitation of the hardware (power delivery with a finite switching time) WITH that hardware. Vdroop exists because it is an INTENTIONAL SOLUTION to a hardware limitation. If you could magically fix that hardware limitation with LLC, then vdroop wouldn't even be necessary. But you can't fix fundamentally flawed hardware with the fundamentally flawed hardware itself. That's like trying to drink yourself sober.
I know that it's an intentional design. I've been telling people that here on OCN for 3 years. However, there's one very very very important thing that I learned during my time here: the quality of the motherboard and its components can mean the difference between LLC being safe and unsafe. That's why some boards don't even have the option to adjust it in the BIOS.

For example: LLC is extremely safe on the almighty EP45-UD3P, but it is not on those budget P45 boards that come with an LLC adjustment in the BIOS. Many boards came with LLC even though it wasn't exactly safe because it is what we were demanding. We were sick of performing the pencil vDroop mods.

These 1155 motherboards that we are using and recommending to each other (that is, the good boards, not the bad ones) are as good as, if not better than the EP45-UD3P in terms of that quality I mentioned.

Computer electronics have come a very very very very very long way since socket 775 (back when both you and I were telling people to stop using LLC).

Will I tell someone to use LLC with a lower quality P45 board or something? No way. Will I tell someone to use LLC with say the plain ASUS P8P67? Yes. In fact, I make damn sure that they at least select High or Ultra High. However, I don't like letting people use Extreme because it causes vRise.
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post #22 of 32
Thread Starter 
Can someone explain why vdroop is an intentional design? I thought it was just because the CPU was drawing more current without the motherboard offering more power.
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post #23 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by SectorNine50 View Post
Can someone explain why vdroop is an intentional design? I thought it was just because the CPU was drawing more current without the motherboard offering more power.
It's supposed to protect the CPU from dangerous voltage spikes (tiny ones that are not detected by software), but these motherboards do a good job of that when their LLC option is enabled. I can't remember exactly which components on the PCB of the motherboard help keep the CPU safe, but it works.
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post #24 of 32
Completely agree with TwoCables
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post #25 of 32
Thread Starter 
Interesting...

Well I guess I have to ask, why do they still have vdroop implemented on these boards if the hardware should make voltage spikes negligible?
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post #26 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by SectorNine50 View Post
Interesting...

Well I guess I have to ask, why do they still have vdroop implemented on these boards if the hardware should make voltage spikes negligible?
It's actually the CPU that has the vDroop. It's just the way Intel designs them.

Now, they could design them in such a way that they end up not having any vDroop, but then their CPUs would be way more expensive.
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post #27 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post
It's actually the CPU that has the vDroop. It's just the way Intel designs them.

Now, they could design them in such a way that they end up not having any vDroop, but then their CPUs would be way more expensive.
Oooooooh gotcha, it's all coming together for me now.

Out of sheer curiosity, why would it be more expensive?
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post #28 of 32
I use LLC to keep my idle vcore up when using a low voltage overclocks with offset voltages.

Like if I'm trying to get 1.4v, I can use very high LLC and say +0.03v, which boosts my idle voltage +0.03v to say 1.01v. Now if I want a load voltage of 1.3v, if I stay on vhigh LLC, I'll need a -0.05 offset, which would drop my idle voltage to 0.92, which may not be stable. But if I drop down to a high LLC and use a +0.045 offset, I'll get similar load voltages, but my idle voltage will be fine.

I've had this problem when using higher LLC and lower voltages, where I'll crash when a test ends or just idling but be fine running Prime for an hour or more.
Edited by Fortunex - 10/28/11 at 5:42pm
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post #29 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by SectorNine50 View Post
Oooooooh gotcha, it's all coming together for me now.

Out of sheer curiosity, why would it be more expensive?
I can't remember. All I remember is finding out that if they were to do it, then it would make the prices much higher. I think it's because they'd have to somehow implement a similar technology that motherboards are using into the CPU which might be difficult to shrink down to fit inside along with the cores - or to fit on its little square PCB.

Although, now I'm just speculating based off my memory of learning that it would make the prices skyrocket because they'd be more expensive to produce.
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post #30 of 32
Thread Starter 
Alright, well thank you all very much for the information! Now I'm home and will start dabbling with that LLC, we'll see what kind of trouble I can stir up.
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500GB 5400RPM HDD Ubuntu Gnome 15.10 Windows 10 14" 1080p ColorPro IPS 
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Galago UltraPro 
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Overclock.net › Forums › Intel › Intel CPUs › What do you think of LLC?