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[Various] Battlefield 3 outrage in Germany - Page 40  

post #391 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by i7monkey View Post
You just don't get it, do you? It's a privacy issue, not a "what are they doing with my data issue". They shouldn't be touching or scanning your system in the first place.

Fact, no amount of privacy violation is acceptable, and if you let companies chip away at your freedoms like this they'll wanna get away with anything.
What you do't get that if that's what you wanted you should have acted 15 years ago. The level of snooping that Origin does is not really anything special and there are some corporations that don't even give you a chance of declining from being mined.

And again because it's already the norm I don't really see why people are up in arms about EA collecting info about what programs you run to market their product better for you. Or actually I can see why they are up in arms but I can't see why Origin is getting all this flak for this crap.

At this point if you want to stay safe from this you should just probably pull the ethernet cable.

I'm against privacy violations and giving corporations more power but what I do not like is selective and sensational news reporting.
 
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post #392 of 411
Quote:
I'm sorry but I don't support the idea of people or corporations being guilty until proven innocent.
I think you are mistaken a little bit here. EA clearly stated in the German EULA what information they collect and what they are using it for.

The culprit admitted his guilt already. The original EULA clearly states that they are gathering information about "Software" and "Software Usage" on your computer - connect this information to your personal profile and use it for marketing purposes and only anonymize it when shared with third party.

Here is the original text in German:

"Du gestattest EA und seinen Partnern das Sammeln, Nutzen, Speichern und Übertragen von technischen und verwandten Informationen, die deinen Computer (einschließlich IP-Adresse), dein Betriebssystem, deine Nutzung der Anwendung (einschließlich erfolgreicher Installation und/oder Deinstallation), Software, Software-Nutzung und deine Hardware-Peripherie identifizieren, um die Bereitstellung von Software-Updates, dynamischen Inhalten, Produktunterstützung und anderen Diensten, einschließlich Online-Diensten, zu erleichtern. EA kann diese Daten ebenfalls in Verbindung mit personenbezogenen Informationen zu Marketingzwecken und zur Verbesserung seiner Produkte und Dienste nutzen. Des Weiteren können wir diese Daten in einer Form, die keine persönliche Identifizierung ermöglicht, an uns verpflichtete Drittunternehmen weitergeben. "

Here a rough translation:

""You agree that EA and its partners collect, use, store and transmit technical and related information that identifies your computer (including IP address), your operating system, your use of the application (including the installation and / or removal) identify software, software usage and your hardware peripherals, to facilitate the provision of software updates, dynamic content, product support and other services including online services. EA, can also use this data in connection with personal information for marketing purposes and to improve its products and services. We can provide this information to third companies in a form that does not allow for personal identification.

Note that first you agree to the gathering of information about the installed application and IN ADDITION TO THIS to the gathering of information about "Software" and "Software Usage". This means they also gather information about third party software. (Also note that they admit to store this infomation in a personalized form and not anonymized.) This confirms exactly with the evidence provided for example in this video here:

http://youtu.be/6lGUOFjMuQA

Origin scans the "Software" and checks the file attributes and so gains information to "Software Usage". The software does exactly what Origin states in the EULA.

Origin has rewritten the EULA today and has tried to hide what it previously confirmed so bluntly - but they have not changed the software.

By the way: Your statement that other companies are doing the same is simply false. Steam for example does stay in its folders and does no such thing. Nor does any other software on my harddrive. I checked for myself using "Process Monitor".
Edited by murrycrane - 10/31/11 at 3:04pm
post #393 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post
(A)And again because it's already the norm I don't really see why people are up in arms about EA collecting info about what programs you run to market their product better for you. Or actually I can see why they are up in arms but I can't see why Origin is getting all this flak for this crap.

(B)At this point if you want to stay safe from this you should just probably pull the ethernet cable.
Ok; so -

(A) - What does EA want to do, sell me a better Outlook, Word and Excel client? What does that have to do with anything EA offers me other than exclusive manuals in PDF format? What about Nero, TuneUp Utilities, or any of the other random software scanned/accessed that has nothing to do with anything EA would be marketing to me? Seriously - you're either blind or just trying to argue (albeit stating your own concern for the opposition's view on the argument, because it's a shallow bid to make attempts at bringing the ball into your own argument).

(B) You talk of sensationalism, yet you quip internet connections as being the true culprit of the problem and issue, again as a snide comment to further your own argument - when - it has no bearing on the argument.
    
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post #394 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thingamajig View Post
I like how the first image is of some tool burning his copy of BF3.

I hate EA, i hate Origin, and BF3 was overhyped. but jesus, if you want to make a point, don't buy the game and THEN burn it -- thats just retarded. By buying it you've given them what they want, you may as well burn money instead, because thats what you're doing.
I would imagine it was most likely a pre-order, not to mention, you typically don't get to read the EULA until installation or account creation so he would have had to open the game. Not many stores accept returns of software that have single use codes in them either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by homestyle View Post
Your web browser has more "info" on you than anything that can scan your computer.

Programs and items in your computer pale in comparison to what you do online in a web browser.

Your internet service provider has more "info" on you than Origin.
A lot of things do, but that doesn't give them the right to walk into your home and start going through your files as Origin is doing with your computer.
    
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post #395 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by murrycrane View Post
I think you are mistaken a little bit here. EA clearly stated in the German EULA what information they collect and what they are using it for.
I basically simplified the thing, of course there are going to be some minor flaws, but I did not want to go into minute details.

Also I'm not familiar with the German EULA, and was going by the American version.

Quote:
The culprit admitted his guilt already. The original EULA clearly states that they are gathering information about "Software" and "Software Usage" on your computer - connect this information to your personal profile and use it for marketing purposes and only anonymize it when shared with third party.

Here is the original text in German:

"Du gestattest EA und seinen Partnern das Sammeln, Nutzen, Speichern und Übertragen von technischen und verwandten Informationen, die deinen Computer (einschließlich IP-Adresse), dein Betriebssystem, deine Nutzung der Anwendung (einschließlich erfolgreicher Installation und/oder Deinstallation), Software, Software-Nutzung und deine Hardware-Peripherie identifizieren, um die Bereitstellung von Software-Updates, dynamischen Inhalten, Produktunterstützung und anderen Diensten, einschließlich Online-Diensten, zu erleichtern. EA kann diese Daten ebenfalls in Verbindung mit personenbezogenen Informationen zu Marketingzwecken und zur Verbesserung seiner Produkte und Dienste nutzen. Des Weiteren können wir diese Daten in einer Form, die keine persönliche Identifizierung ermöglicht, an uns verpflichtete Drittunternehmen weitergeben. "

Here a rough translation:

""You agree that EA and its partners collect, use, store and transmit technical and related information that identifies your computer (including IP address), your operating system, your use of the application (including the installation and / or removal) identify software, software usage and your hardware peripherals, to facilitate the provision of software updates, dynamic content, product support and other services including online services. EA, can also use this data in connection with personal information for marketing purposes and to improve its products and services. We can provide this information to third companies in a form that does not allow for personal identification.

Note that first you agree to the gathering of information about the installed application and IN ADDITION TO THIS to the gathering of information about "Software" and "Software Usage". This means they also gather information about third party software. (Also note that they admit to store this infomation in a personalized form and not anonymized.) This confirms exactly with the evidence provided for example in this video here:

http://youtu.be/6lGUOFjMuQA

Origin scans the "Software" and checks the file attributes and so gains information to "Software Usage". The software does exactly what Origin states in the EULA.

Origin has rewritten the EULA today and has tried to hide what it previously confirmed so bluntly - but they have not changed the software.
Yeah I know. That's what I was getting at. It's doing exactly what it says, it pretty much checks what software you use and some other tidbits of info for marketing purposes. This is entirely different than what the news sources are reporting though, and what they are trying to do is scare people into going against EA.

It is simply not appropriate reporting to say that EA scans for pirated games specifically or is interested in your personal tax documents. Those things are false, and they should not be presented in the media as truth since people seem to have an odd tendency of trusting the media much more than anything.

Right now the gaming media is going all out on everything they can get on Origin because it's a hot subject, that gives everyone a badly formed image about the real proportions of the issues at hand.

There is also no proof of them selling or transmitting the info they gather to companies outside of EA, which was one of the things people were accusing EA of.

Quote:
By the way: Your statement that other companies are doing the same is simply false. Steam for example does stay in its folders and does no such thing. Nor does any other software on my harddrive. I checked for myself using "Process Monitor".
I'm not talking about steam or any other minor player. (though I'd love to read steam's EULA etc. to see what that entails). What I was getting at was the big corporations like Google or Facebook doing much worse data gathering than Origin is doing here. And yet again we have to remember that Origin isn't putting itself on every web page out there and is actually giving you a choice: use it or decline from using it.

E:


Quote:
Originally Posted by GanjaSMK View Post
Ok; so -

(A) - What does EA want to do, sell me a better Outlook, Word and Excel client? What does that have to do with anything EA offers me other than exclusive manuals in PDF format? What about Nero, TuneUp Utilities, or any of the other random software scanned/accessed that has nothing to do with anything EA would be marketing to me? Seriously - you're either blind or just trying to argue (albeit stating your own concern for the opposition's view on the argument, because it's a shallow bid to make attempts at bringing the ball into your own argument).
it's actually quite simple. If EA detects that you run let's say Excel on your computer they can put ads of other microsoft products for example on their Amazon page.

The same thing as google monitoring the sites you go to and giving you ads that are about the stuff you browse.

Quote:
(B) You talk of sensationalism, yet you quip internet connections as being the true culprit of the problem and issue, again as a snide comment to further your own argument - when - it has no bearing on the argument.
I was referring to the current state of selling data and mining customers for marketing data with that part of my post. What I meant by it is that, the current situation is what it is, kind of bad if you ask me. And that this has been going on for a long time.

And with that in mind I'm asking why is EA getting all the hate about this.
Edited by Alatar - 10/31/11 at 3:30pm
 
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post #396 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post
What you do't get that if that's what you wanted you should have acted 15 years ago. The level of snooping that Origin does is not really anything special
That's not the point whether they do anything special or not, they have no right to access our stuff in the first place. They are violating people's privacy and this debate should be about privacy violation period, NOT "how much privacy violation is acceptable".

It's like the government installing a camera in your street and you saying, "ehh...it's only a camera, I've got nothing to hide anyway, I'm an upstanding citizen. What are they gonna do with that data anyway? It's got no real data on me anyway, it doesn't see what I'm doing".

And if everyone's ok with that privacy violation then 3 years later they're gonna want to install a camera in front of your house, and people will still say, "It's only a camera, it doesn't see what I'm doing anyway, it only sees me when I come in and out of my house, no biggie".

A few years later they're gonna induct laws that grant police to search your house any time they want in the interest of "national security" and "anti-terrorism" and ignorant people are gonna continue to say "It's no big deal, I'm an law-abiding citizen and I've got nothing to hide anyway".

etc...etc.....

See what I'm getting at? They have no right to violate privacy in the first place and it's a slippery slope that we can't allow to happen.



Quote:
and there are some corporations that don't even give you a chance of declining from being mined.
And those companies and their products should be boycotted too.


Quote:
And again because it's already the norm I don't really see why people are up in arms about EA collecting info about what programs you run to market their product better for you. Or actually I can see why they are up in arms but I can't see why Origin is getting all this flak for this crap.
That's the problem, that's it gotten to the point where it's becoming the norm. Too many people are bending over for these companies so naturally these companies are gonna get away with as much as they can.

By being lazy and ignorant people have let these companies get away with these things. If people stood up for their rights we'd be getting products that wouldn't violate privacy in the first place.


Quote:
At this point if you want to stay safe from this you should just probably pull the ethernet cable.
This is by far the most over-used and illogical argument used in these debates. It makes no sense.

It's like car companies wanting people's blood samples, finger prints, hair samples, and all their personal details before they can sell them a car and people like YOU saying, "Well, if you don't want to give your blood, hair, fingerprints, tax information, financial records, how much money you make and your social insurance number to them, then it's simple, don't buy a car".

Don't you see how retarded your argument is? Just because they offer a service doesn't mean they get to rape and pillage every nook and cranny of your life.


Quote:
I'm against privacy violations and giving corporations more power
You're not against it judging by your posts.


Quote:
but what I do not like is selective and sensational news reporting.
I like consistency myself but it still doesn't make your arguments any more logical. It's a privacy issue, period. No amount privacy violation is acceptable and people should stand up for their rights, not go along with whatever these companies want.

If we bend over for a company like EA when it comes to Origin, they and every other service and company will take us for whatever we've got in the future. Give them an inch, they'll take a mile.
Edited by i7monkey - 10/31/11 at 3:47pm
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post #397 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post
(A)It's actually quite simple. If EA detects that you run let's say Excel on your computer they can put ads of other microsoft products for example on their Amazon page.

The same thing as google monitoring the sites you go to and giving you ads that are about the stuff you browse.

(B)I was referring to the current state of selling data and mining customers for marketing data with that part of my post. What I meant by it is that, the current situation is what it is, kind of bad if you ask me. And that this has been going on for a long time.

And with that in mind I'm asking why is EA getting all the hate about this.
(A) What? What products does EA sell for Microsoft? What are you talking about? You make no sense. Nero? TuneUp Utilities would be obvious, but seriously what are you on about?

(B) Google monitors traffic and ad, web use and otherwise - sure. However, I'm never signed in to Google via the web other than to check email. I don't search Google signed in, I don't participate in other Google products like Google+ or AdSense, or otherwise. Sure, I use Google Earth once in a while - but what are they collecting there that might institute mining of personal inquiry? That I'm looking at the home I grew up in so they can send me mortgage companies with information about loans to purchase similar house or it that are on the market? Come on.

And Facebook? I don't use that crap, or MySpace, or any of the other 'social' networking sites.

So, Google will still monitor sites I'm searching for because of their engine and make recommendations on sites that may be of interest to me. That is relevant information, not data mining. Facebook and other 'social sites' is totally different. There is a reason I'm not a part of any of them.

I still fail to see the logic in your argument. What EA is doing is, a) spying b) intrusive c) a privacy issue and d) very alarming.

EA is not Google, or Facebook, or MS. They are a gaming developer/publisher.
    
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post #398 of 411
Quote:
And yet again we have to remember that Origin isn't putting itself on every web page out there and is actually giving you a choice: use it or decline from using it.
And yet again we have to remember what Origin is really doing here: They are breaking the law.

At least in Germany they do. And since privacy laws are pretty much the same throughout the EU they are breaking the laws of many other countries, too. I don't know but if I break the law I get a fine or go to jail. And I have to stop breaking the law. Why should we treat EA and Origin different in any way?

If you sell something - software or any other product you have to abide to the laws in the country you sell to. Or can someone sell marihuana in the US just because he resides in the Netherlands and its legal there?
post #399 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by i7monkey View Post
snip
You just gave me the privacy thing again. Yes we know, you don't have to pound it into everyone's head right now, that's not what the argument was about.

I'm arguing against the overblown reaction the media seems to have right now.

And for the last time: I am not in favor of letting companies take our private info. Read my posts and you'll see that I never said that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GanjaSMK View Post
(A) What? What products does EA sell for Microsoft? What are you talking about? You make no sense. Nero? TuneUp Utilities would be obvious, but seriously what are you on about?
EA shows microsoft adds on their sites ----> EA gets add revenue = money for EA.

EA shows the right ads for a specific user on their page ---> user is more likely to click the add = EA gets even more ad revenue/money.

Quote:
snip about google, facebook etc. and how not participating in these services will somehow shield you from them (not GanjaSMK's specific wording by any means)
Doesn't really work like that. For example there are different facebook links, elements, like-buttons etc. on majority of popular news sites, blogs etc. right now. When you use one of these sites, even if you don't have a facebook account you get profiled and your browsing habits get used for marketing. Doesn't sound too much different than Origin checking what programs you run and using that info for advertising.

Quote:
EA is not Google, or Facebook, or MS. They are a gaming developer/publisher.
EA, Google, Facebook and MS all offer services for their customers. The have their differences but those are really not relevant right now since we're talking about privacy issues related to services specifically.

-------------------

I have an early wake up tomorrow. I'll check this thread then but now I need to sleep. 'Nite guys.
 
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FX 8320, FX 8350, Phenom II x2 555BE i7 3930K, i7 860, i7 4770K, 68x Celeron D CVF, commando, 2x RIVE, Z87X-OC Asus 4870x2, Sapphire 4870 
GraphicsGraphicsGraphicsGraphics
2x 5870, 5850, 5830, 5770 2x 3870x2, 3870 GTX Titan, GTX 480, GTX 590 GTX 285, GTX 260, 4x 9800GT, 8800GTX 
RAMHard DriveCoolingCooling
4x4GB vengeance, 2x4GB predatorX, 2x1GB OCZ DDR2 Intel X25-M 80GB LD PC-V2 SS Phase Change OCN Marksman 
CoolingCoolingOSPower
2x old tek slims (GPU) Various watercooling stuff win7, winxp AX1200 
Case
test bench / cardboard box 
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Benching
(17 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
[i7 5960X @ 4.8GHz] [Rampage V Extreme] [Titan 1400MHz (1500MHz bench)] [Various] 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
[250GB 840EVO +2x SpinpointF3 1TB RAID0] [LD PC-V2 SS Phase Change] [XSPC X2O 750 pump/res] [Monsta 360 full copper + EK XT 360 + XT 240] 
MonitorPowerCaseAudio
[Crossover 27Q LED-P 1440p+ASUS 1200p+LG 1080p] [Corsair AX1200] [Dimastech Easy v3.0] [Sennheiser HD558s] 
CPUCPUMotherboardGraphics
FX 8320, FX 8350, Phenom II x2 555BE i7 3930K, i7 860, i7 4770K, 68x Celeron D CVF, commando, 2x RIVE, Z87X-OC Asus 4870x2, Sapphire 4870 
GraphicsGraphicsGraphicsGraphics
2x 5870, 5850, 5830, 5770 2x 3870x2, 3870 GTX Titan, GTX 480, GTX 590 GTX 285, GTX 260, 4x 9800GT, 8800GTX 
RAMHard DriveCoolingCooling
4x4GB vengeance, 2x4GB predatorX, 2x1GB OCZ DDR2 Intel X25-M 80GB LD PC-V2 SS Phase Change OCN Marksman 
CoolingCoolingOSPower
2x old tek slims (GPU) Various watercooling stuff win7, winxp AX1200 
Case
test bench / cardboard box 
  hide details  
post #400 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by mega_option101 View Post
You'll need to download Process Monitor
Thanks!
Fearless~
(20 items)
 
The Intel Side
(18 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Phenom II X6 1090T @ 3.8 Asus Sabertooth 990FX EVGA GrillForce GTX 465 SLI Mushkin Blackline 2x4gb 1600mhz [1.5v] 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
OCZ Vertex 3 120GB WD Caviar Black (1002FAEX)1TB Synology DS210J (4tb) Lite-on DVD Rewriter 16x IDE External 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Noctua NH-D14 Windows 7 Home Premium x64 Samsung Syncmaster E2320 Metadot Das Professional S Silent 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair TX 850 V1 [Original PSH] NZXT Gamma Classic Series Mid-Tower Logitech VX Revolution Razer Sphex 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Asus Xonar DX Klipsch Promedia 2.1 Bose Triport/Klipsch S3 Blue Snowball 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i3 2100 Gigabyte H61M-S2PV Asus GT430 Corsair XMS3 2x2gb 1333mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Intel X-25V 40GB Synology DS210j (4tb) Seagate Barracuda 120gb LG CH12LS28 Blu Ray  
CoolingOSOSMonitor
Thermalright X-Silent 120 Mac OS X 10.8.2 Windows 7 Ultimate x64 Toshiba 46VX700VU 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Microsoft Wireless Optical Desktop 700 XFX 450w Core Edition Silverstone ML03B Microsoft Wireless Optical Desktop 700 
AudioAudio
Realtek Onboard Klipsch Promedia 2.1 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core 2 Duo P8700 2.53ghz Apple Logic Board Nvidia Geforce 9400m 4gb @1066 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOS
Western Digital Scorpio Black 320gb Synology DS210j (4tb) Apple SuperDrive Mac OS X 10.8.4/Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
13" 1280x800 Glossy Backlit Apple Keyboard/OCN Ducky Tenkeyless [MX... 65w Magsafe Aluminium Unibody 
MouseAudioAudio
Apple Trackpad/Logitech MX310 Fiio A1 + Sony Bookshelf Blue Snowball 
  hide details  
Fearless~
(20 items)
 
The Intel Side
(18 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Phenom II X6 1090T @ 3.8 Asus Sabertooth 990FX EVGA GrillForce GTX 465 SLI Mushkin Blackline 2x4gb 1600mhz [1.5v] 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
OCZ Vertex 3 120GB WD Caviar Black (1002FAEX)1TB Synology DS210J (4tb) Lite-on DVD Rewriter 16x IDE External 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Noctua NH-D14 Windows 7 Home Premium x64 Samsung Syncmaster E2320 Metadot Das Professional S Silent 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair TX 850 V1 [Original PSH] NZXT Gamma Classic Series Mid-Tower Logitech VX Revolution Razer Sphex 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Asus Xonar DX Klipsch Promedia 2.1 Bose Triport/Klipsch S3 Blue Snowball 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i3 2100 Gigabyte H61M-S2PV Asus GT430 Corsair XMS3 2x2gb 1333mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Intel X-25V 40GB Synology DS210j (4tb) Seagate Barracuda 120gb LG CH12LS28 Blu Ray  
CoolingOSOSMonitor
Thermalright X-Silent 120 Mac OS X 10.8.2 Windows 7 Ultimate x64 Toshiba 46VX700VU 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Microsoft Wireless Optical Desktop 700 XFX 450w Core Edition Silverstone ML03B Microsoft Wireless Optical Desktop 700 
AudioAudio
Realtek Onboard Klipsch Promedia 2.1 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core 2 Duo P8700 2.53ghz Apple Logic Board Nvidia Geforce 9400m 4gb @1066 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOS
Western Digital Scorpio Black 320gb Synology DS210j (4tb) Apple SuperDrive Mac OS X 10.8.4/Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
13" 1280x800 Glossy Backlit Apple Keyboard/OCN Ducky Tenkeyless [MX... 65w Magsafe Aluminium Unibody 
MouseAudioAudio
Apple Trackpad/Logitech MX310 Fiio A1 + Sony Bookshelf Blue Snowball 
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