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[TechReport]A quick look at Bulldozer thread scheduling - Page 3

post #21 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Odyn View Post
Bulldozer should have been a success -- they never collaborated with MS to fix win7s scheduler to optimize the chip. AMD sure is pretty stupid for that. They could hav even tried to create a patch themselves..... ugh.
But let me ask this...what the hell were THEY testing it on for YEARS while proclaiming these IPC increases and all the other marketing junk they spouted at us?

They had to test it with an OS. So let's say them didn't test it with Windows, which would be a MASSIVE MASSIVE FAIL since 99.9% of people buying AMD CPUs will be running them with Windows...I don't even understand how that could be possible.
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post #22 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post
My XP SP3 would BSOD like crazy until I installed the patch.

No more BSODs, further OC headroom and also a bit better load balancing between threads.


All this module/core stuff... We already know that BD itself is better than Phenom, but the resource sharing idea doesn't work simply because of the low quality of the silicon application of the architecture. If the caches were as fast as Sandybridge's, I bet the resource sharing concept would work at full throttle (instead of actually crippling the FMACs and the ALUs) and would simply destroy Phenom II.
i actually think the same ... the latency is so high compared to sandy and even phenom II in most of the major architectural part of bulldozer that it crippled it ..


the only decent thing is the long pipeline

if they could cut the latency everywhere by at least 20% it would make a world of difference


but that's my humble opinion


Quote:
Originally Posted by kweechy View Post
But let me ask this...what the hell were THEY testing it on for YEARS while proclaiming these IPC increases and all the other marketing junk they spouted at us?

They had to test it with an OS. So let's say them didn't test it with Windows, which would be a MASSIVE MASSIVE FAIL since 99.9% of people buying AMD CPUs will be running them with Windows...I don't even understand how that could be possible.
back then they were testing it on simulation software probably .. and once they started to have engineering samples they figured out the real story and changed it a bit .. by keeping so tight lipped ...
Edited by Fr0sty - 10/30/11 at 7:35pm
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post #23 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by kweechy View Post
But let me ask this...what the hell were THEY testing it on for YEARS while proclaiming these IPC increases and all the other marketing junk they spouted at us?

They had to test it with an OS. So let's say them didn't test it with Windows, which would be a MASSIVE MASSIVE FAIL since 99.9% of people buying AMD CPUs will be running them with Windows...I don't even understand how that could be possible.
That's what I always thought. Did they actually even try to finish the OS optimization, or just release it and hope for the best?
    
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post #24 of 46
i mighted come back restocking for FX-8150 SOON....
post #25 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post
The cache would fix that, but this at least proves beyond any reasonable doubt what I've been saying for a bit now. Bulldozers problems stem from the shared resources not being fast enough.

It could be overcome but the shared L1 cache and scheduler are too small/slow, if the shared L1 cache was 32KB and the scheduler did at least 4ops/cycle, if not 8ops/cycle, it'd beat Phenom II quite handily.
The problem with this is that in order for that to happen, they need to widen the integer cores to be able to execute the instructions, you cant just throw 4 ops at a core that can only take two, (this is why when you disable one core per module you dont get double the performance)

And in order to widen the integer cores, you need to take up more die space, which means at this point (32nm) they would have to take out one module per chip, or power usage would be ridiculous.

The main problem with bulldozer is its fantastic in theory, and there are a ton of tiny fixes that would make it better, but in order to make one of those tiny fixes, you have to also fix a ton of other tiny things. All of which add up.

My thuban is still treating me very well for now, so ill stick with it for a while. Bulldozer may have not been a success this time around, but its an incredible first step towards a very promising architecture design. i think at 22nm and beyond it'll probably kick some ass, but for now.. Oh well i guess. :/
Edited by Rommel - 10/31/11 at 2:54am
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post #26 of 46
AMD is basically back where they were in 1995... decent chip, but JUST a bit behind...
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post #27 of 46
The performance boost is ok I guess, however it does not solve the issue of the insane power draw from the chip... Based upon power draw vs performance I doubt that it makes Bulldozer look any better than a comparable Intel platform based computer.
 
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post #28 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamwardicus View Post
The performance boost is ok I guess, however it does not solve the issue of the insane power draw from the chip... Based upon power draw vs performance I doubt that it makes Bulldozer look any better than a comparable Intel platform based computer.
But if operated as was intended, the power draw is capable of being decreased when cores are shut down.
    
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post #29 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rommel View Post
The problem with this is that in order for that to happen, they need to widen the integer cores to be able to execute the instructions, you cant just throw 4 ops at a core that can only take two, (this is why when you disable one core per module you dont get double the performance)

And in order to widen the integer cores, you need to take up more die space, which means at this point (32nm) they would have to take out one module per chip, or power usage would be ridiculous.

The main problem with bulldozer is its fantastic in theory, and there are a ton of tiny fixes that would make it better, but in order to male one of those tiny fixes, you have to also fix a ton of other tiny things. All of which add up.
But the cache (The tiny 16KB of the L1 cache, or gigantic and slow L2 and L3 cache) are what would push the single core performance up, they seem to be pretty data starved as it is, we're definitely not seeing the BD pipeline at its fullest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamwardicus View Post
The performance boost is ok I guess, however it does not solve the issue of the insane power draw from the chip... Based upon power draw vs performance I doubt that it makes Bulldozer look any better than a comparable Intel platform based computer.
Power consumption is equal to an Intel 32nm chip with less cores.
And when you use all 8 cores and have recompiled with FMA, XOP, etc, it is actually quite a fast chip, even nearing 980X levels.
    
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post #30 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr0sty View Post
if they could cut the latency everywhere by at least 20% it would make a world of difference


but that's my humble opinion

What you call your humble opinion has a crapload of sense.

When increasing NB speed all we do is bump the memory<->processor bandwidth and speed while keeping the same latency.

If that alone is a HUGE change (in PhII it was too), now cut latencies by a 25% and you get even faster links. Then a quadchannel IMC would make sense, and would skyrocket performance.


There's no sense on increasing the memory speed if what's crippling you is inside the core. I call that gimmicks. AMD knows very well that their processors have the problem in the caches and the IMC, not in the speed of the RAM.

And what they did was increase RAM speed capabilities and put in a terrible cache. Christ
   
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