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Sean's Windows 7 Install & Optimization Guide for SSDs & HDDs - Page 128

post #1271 of 5384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Webster View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindd992002 View Post

When the computer is idle, do you really need to log it off for GC to work properly? Or is GC not effective now?

I honestly don't know for sure whether or not you "need" to log off, but I have read that over at a OCZ's and Crucial's forums.

Also, I currently am still learning about GC, TRIM, and Wear leveling. I will hopefully be able to answer you with near full knowledge soon. smile.gif

Ok, thanks!

I read about that info somewhere and I'm against it since it's just not normal to log off your computer everytime even if you use it 24/7. With regards to TRIM, it would be better to really turn off recycle bin for the SSD since it signals TRIM to activate instantly upon deletion of file in the SSD. That saves the delay that TRIM usually has.
post #1272 of 5384
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindd992002 View Post


Ok, thanks!
I read about that info somewhere and I'm against it since it's just not normal to log off your computer everytime even if you use it 24/7.

I agree! I don't think you have to, but it is a safe say b/c what about random softwares or something constantly not letting the system idle? Just one less thing to trouble shoot i think.
Quote:
With regards to TRIM, it would be better to really turn off recycle bin for the SSD since it signals TRIM to activate instantly upon deletion of file in the SSD. That saves the delay that TRIM usually has.
Wait disable or keep enabled? I read a few things about that and I am confused on it myself. It really is true?
Links! biggrin.gif
post #1273 of 5384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Webster View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindd992002 View Post


Ok, thanks!
I read about that info somewhere and I'm against it since it's just not normal to log off your computer everytime even if you use it 24/7.

I agree! I don't think you have to, but it is a safe say b/c what about random softwares or something constantly not letting the system idle? Just one less thing to trouble shoot i think.
Quote:
With regards to TRIM, it would be better to really turn off recycle bin for the SSD since it signals TRIM to activate instantly upon deletion of file in the SSD. That saves the delay that TRIM usually has.
Wait disable or keep enabled? I read a few things about that and I am confused on it myself. It really is true?
Links! biggrin.gif
post #1274 of 5384
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindd992002 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Webster View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindd992002 View Post


Ok, thanks!
I read about that info somewhere and I'm against it since it's just not normal to log off your computer everytime even if you use it 24/7.

I agree! I don't think you have to, but it is a safe say b/c what about random softwares or something constantly not letting the system idle? Just one less thing to trouble shoot i think.
Quote:
With regards to TRIM, it would be better to really turn off recycle bin for the SSD since it signals TRIM to activate instantly upon deletion of file in the SSD. That saves the delay that TRIM usually has.
Wait disable or keep enabled? I read a few things about that and I am confused on it myself. It really is true?
Links! biggrin.gif

Kevin? Did you forget to post links or type your reply? lol
post #1275 of 5384
Now if I wanted to, could i.....
  1. Plug in SSD as a secondary drive
  2. Update the SSD and everything else I need from here
  3. Unplug both, plug in only SSD Drive to install Windows
  4. Tweak and optimize Windows to my hearts content
  5. plug in hard drive as secondary drive
  6. Set SSD as primary
  7. Copy over everything I need from HD
  8. If SSD fails or I have to RMA just set primary to HD?

You seem knowledgeable in SSD's. Vertex 3 or Corsair Force GT 90gb SATA III
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post #1276 of 5384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Webster View Post

Kevin? Did you forget to post links or type your reply? lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Webster View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindd992002 View Post

Ok, thanks!
I read about that info somewhere and I'm against it since it's just not normal to log off your computer everytime even if you use it 24/7.
I agree! I don't think you have to, but it is a safe say b/c what about random softwares or something constantly not letting the system idle? Just one less thing to trouble shoot i think.
Quote:
With regards to TRIM, it would be better to really turn off recycle bin for the SSD since it signals TRIM to activate instantly upon deletion of file in the SSD. That saves the delay that TRIM usually has.
Wait disable or keep enabled? I read a few things about that and I am confused on it myself. It really is true?
Links! biggrin.gif

Sorry for the blank message in my previous post, my Internet connection acted weird, lol.

Anyway, regarding GC, many say that it's not needed in today's modern SSDs so I think that's the reason they're saying that logging off is not necessary nowadays.

Keep recycle bin disabled. In that way, the file is instantly deleted and TRIM is activated right away.
post #1277 of 5384
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindd992002 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Webster View Post

Kevin? Did you forget to post links or type your reply? lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Webster View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindd992002 View Post

Ok, thanks!
I read about that info somewhere and I'm against it since it's just not normal to log off your computer everytime even if you use it 24/7.
I agree! I don't think you have to, but it is a safe say b/c what about random softwares or something constantly not letting the system idle? Just one less thing to trouble shoot i think.
Quote:
With regards to TRIM, it would be better to really turn off recycle bin for the SSD since it signals TRIM to activate instantly upon deletion of file in the SSD. That saves the delay that TRIM usually has.
Wait disable or keep enabled? I read a few things about that and I am confused on it myself. It really is true?
Links! biggrin.gif

Sorry for the blank message in my previous post, my Internet connection acted weird, lol.

Anyway, regarding GC, many say that it's not needed in today's modern SSDs so I think that's the reason they're saying that logging off is not necessary nowadays.

Keep recycle bin disabled. In that way, the file is instantly deleted and TRIM is activated right away.

All newer SSDs run GC, they are designed to... it's built into their firmware's code. That's why certain GC routines works better than others. The SSD manufacturer "decides" how the GC cycle is implemented by the SSD in the firmware coding. The manufacturer decides this based on what they want to accomplish as average performance for their drives. The things that are predomenantly taken into account in developing how the actual GC routine will run are TRIM, backround garbage collection and write amplification.

TRIM by itself does nothing for the SSD's data. A TRIM command from the OS only tells the SSD, that data on the SSD is no longer required by the OS, nothing more.

This may help in understanding what TRIM is, and what it is not.

As you are already aware, when you delete a file on your computer, the OS doesn’t actually delete it. The OS, in its file allocation table, only marks the area as free, to be re-used when needed again. This means the data associated with this area of the SSD (or HDD) is no longer considered valid by the OS. The problem is that the drive doesn’t know that the OS did this. Remember, with an SSD, (unlike a magnetic HDD) it is the drive's controller that actually manages the data on the drive, not the OS. With a magnetic HDD, it's not important that the HDD knows what the OS did, because it is the OS that manages the HDD's data allocation units. The OS has the ability to tell the HDD to write over the data whenever/whereever it wants.

Step in SSD... The OS no longer has control as to where data is written. All it can do is send data to be written, to the SSD. The SSD then becomes responsible for the data's location on the drive. Even though you have deleted a file, and the OS considers the file deleted, has freed the location in it's data map...etc, the SSD still considers the data valid.

When the SSD initiates its Garbage Collection cycle (as mentioned before, as it nears idle), the SSD begins to consolidate blocks of data to free up space. With or without TRIM, The SSD must copy all of the data it considers valid to a new block, before it can erase the current block it is working on. The TRIM command that had been previously sent to the SSD from the OS, helps the SSD to "get on the same page" with the OS. Without the TRIM command being sent to the SSD, it typically would not know a page is considered invalid by the OS, unless the LBA associated with it had been previously rewritten by the SSD.

Trim is simply the function of the operating system telling the drive that a page is no longer valid. It does not delete files, or clear pages.

But TRIM does help SSDs in a few ways. Usually the GC routine won't have to compare it's entire file data table to that in the OS's. This helps to reduce write amplification (the number of times an SSDs cells are written to), because during GC, the SSD will not/does not need to copy invalid (deleted) pages. There will also be fewer pages for the SSD to copy, which speeds up the process of freeing up partially valid blocks.

Again, this is a function of the SSD's GC routine, not TRIM. Garbage collection will also work without TRIM. How effectively is based on the SSDs Firmware. Without TRIM, the GC cycle usually takes a little longer, is slightly less effective, but for other than benchmarks, will usually produce nearly the same results (un-noticable to the end user). This was not always the case with older SSDs.
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post #1278 of 5384
Nice guide. I have a question thought. Maybe a dumb question. In the "Configure a drive using a BIOS/UEFI motherboard and MBR format". Is this for a new windows 7 install with a new harddrive? And what is the advantage of doing this step? ......thank you thumb.gif
Edited by jinxjx - 12/26/11 at 11:17am
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post #1279 of 5384
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaivorth View Post

Now if I wanted to, could i.....
  1. Plug in SSD as a secondary drive
  2. Update the SSD and everything else I need from here
  3. Unplug both, plug in only SSD Drive to install Windows
  4. Tweak and optimize Windows to my hearts content
  5. plug in hard drive as secondary drive
  6. Set SSD as primary
  7. Copy over everything I need from HD
  8. If SSD fails or I have to RMA just set primary to HD?

Yea basically.
Quote:
You seem knowledgeable in SSD's. Vertex 3 or Corsair Force GT 90gb SATA III

Corsair Force GT is usually faster in the benches.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jinxjx View Post

Nice guide. I have a question thought. Maybe a dumb question. In the "Configure a drive using a BIOS/UEFI motherboard and MBR format". Is this for a new windows 7 install with a new harddrive? And what is the advantage of doing this step?......thank you thumb.gif

Both new and old. It is for a completely clean install of the OS. So you need to back up any data you want to save first if it is an older system.

The OD partition will be aligned on the drive correctly and increase performance and you will have a clean install and no extra 100MB partition most likely.
post #1280 of 5384
odd....reformatted my external HDD using the method used to align to 4096... oddly got a missing bootmngr error when I restarted... restarted again...it was gone....hmmmm.....

Seems fine now.... Probably just tried to boot from the external drive since I listed it as active...whops
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