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Sean's Windows 7 Install & Optimization Guide for SSDs & HDDs - Page 7

post #61 of 5040
Thread Starter 
If you have an issue updating your firmware from within Windows do this:
  1. Click Start
  2. In the Start menu, type Device Manager, hit Enter
  3. Click "IDE ATA/ATAPI Controllers"
  4. You will see AMD SATA Controller, Intel SATA controller, etc., right click and click "Properties"
  5. Go to the "Driver" tab
  6. Click "Update Driver"
  7. Click "Browse my Computer"
  8. Click "Let me pick"
  9. You will see the option to choose "Standard AHCI 1.0 Serial ATA Controller", click this and click "Next" and let it install
  10. Then reboot and try to install the new firmware for your drive now
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post #62 of 5040
Ya I changed my original thread: http://www.overclock.net/ssd/1103319-ssd-general-information-compilation.html

To reflect that change of not turning off windows defrag given it seems to be not necessary anymore.

I do agree with using a Pagefile of at least 1Gb because I've had programs be pissed at me for turning it off, so I just left it at 1000-1000 and no issues smile.gif
post #63 of 5040
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindd992002;15527665 
So the process of manually aligning it to 4096 is the same for GPT partition styles? GPT should contain three partitions by default, ESP, MSR, and Basic Data partition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindd992002;15527807 
Your alignment is set to 4096? So you just followed the steps in the OP without creating the ESP and MSR partitions required for GPT?

Hey Sean, gotta jump on this bandwagon, from a "need to know" aspect. Can you provide some insight. Below are the "standard requirements" for a GUID Partition Table (GPT) boot device.

Every GPT disk must contain an MSR, or the DATA on the disk can't be accessed properly. In your formatting senario, running diskpart on your functional SSD, are you sure you ended up with GPT, rather than MBR?

Diskpart is the only way you can see the MSR, but with the caveat below. The MSR, may not show up, without the ESP.

On another note....

Although it is possible to eliminate the ESP (It is very similar to the 100MB "system partition" in MBR), it is not adviseable. The ESP contains a very important piece of information as outline below:

A very important thing that is contained in this partition under GPT, is a "legacy" Protective MBR at sector 0 of the drive. This ensures a protection of the GPT disk from MBR disk tools such as Microsoft MS-DOS FDISK or Microsoft Windows NT Disk Administrator, as well as other disk programs that run in the pre-OS environment.

These type of programs are not GPT "aware". They therefore cannot access a GPT disk. This type of legacy software that does not know about GPT interprets only the Protected MBR when it accesses a GPT disk. These tools will view a GPT disk as having a single encompassing (possibly unrecognized) partition by interpreting the Protected MBR, rather than mistaking the disk for one that is unpartitioned/unformatted etc... It ensures that you can't, (or often can) run a utility outside of the OS on a GPT partition, that is looking for MBR information.

Without the ESP partition, these "legacy" (only to the new GPT disk) programs, cannot be run on a disk formatted as GPT. They actually can be run, but usually with unexpected results... "Oh ****! Where'd all my stuff go?"


Although the UEFI stores some information regarding the pre-boot environment in its firmware, it also uses this partition to store some additional preboot information. This will become more important down the road, as the UEFI starts to mature, and is used for more than just booting the PC.
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post #64 of 5040
Well, now I'm not sure where the 4096 came from. It' still a multiple of 512, so it doesn't really matter since it aligns properly.

http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ssd-speed-tweaks-3319&print=friendly
Quote:
MLC NAND flash drives generally have 512KB erase block size (128 pages * 4KB per page = 512KB per block).
Filesystems like NTFS usually have 4KB (4096 bytes) default cluster size.
To align the partition of a single drive with a single NAND flash controller, you should use 512KB.
For a single drive with dual NAND flash controllers, you should double the sectors to 1024KB.
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post #65 of 5040
/\

that was awesome.

Oh and the people asking about 1024 vs 4k. Drives are now manufactured w/ 4k. Best to give them what they want!

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2888


EDIT: I do not know what I'm talking about
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post #66 of 5040
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xandypx;15530989 
Hey Sean, gotta jump on this bandwagon, from a "need to know" aspect. Can you provide some insight. Below are the "standard requirements" for a GUID Partition Table (GPT) boot device.

Every GPT disk must contain an MSR, or the DATA on the disk can't be accessed properly. In your formatting senario, running diskpart on your functional SSD, are you sure you ended up with GPT, rather than MBR?

Diskpart is the only way you can see the MSR, but with the caveat below. The MSR, may not show up, without the ESP.

On another note....

Although it is possible to eliminate the ESP (It is very similar to the 100MB "system partition" in MBR), it is not adviseable. The ESP contains a very important piece of information as outline below:

A very important thing that is contained in this partition under GPT, is a "legacy" Protective MBR at sector 0 of the drive. This ensures a protection of the GPT disk from MBR disk tools such as Microsoft MS-DOS FDISK or Microsoft Windows NT Disk Administrator, as well as other disk programs that run in the pre-OS environment.

These type of programs are not GPT "aware". They therefore cannot access a GPT disk. This type of legacy software that does not know about GPT interprets only the Protected MBR when it accesses a GPT disk. These tools will view a GPT disk as having a single encompassing (possibly unrecognized) partition by interpreting the Protected MBR, rather than mistaking the disk for one that is unpartitioned/unformatted etc... It ensures that you can't, (or often can) run a utility outside of the OS on a GPT partition, that is looking for MBR information.

Without the ESP partition, these "legacy" (only to the new GPT disk) programs, cannot be run on a disk formatted as GPT. They actually can be run, but usually with unexpected results... "Oh ****! Where'd all my stuff go?"


Although the UEFI stores some information regarding the pre-boot environment in its firmware, it also uses this partition to store some additional preboot information. This will become more important down the road, as the UEFI starts to mature, and is used for more than just booting the PC.

I'll get back to you on that. :/
Quote:
Originally Posted by esocid;15531263 
Well, now I'm not sure where the 4096 came from. It' still a multiple of 512, so it doesn't really matter since it aligns properly.

http://www.speedguide.net/articles/ssd-speed-tweaks-3319&print=friendly
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocturin;15531276 
/\

that was awesome.

Oh and the people asking about 1024 vs 4k. Drives are now manufactured w/ 4k. Best to give them what they want!

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2888


EDIT: I do not know what I'm talking about

Hmmm, I need to ask someone who knows for sure, I'll update you with what I learn. biggrin.gif
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post #67 of 5040
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocturin;15531276 
/\

that was awesome.

Oh and the people asking about 1024 vs 4k. Drives are now manufactured w/ 4k. Best to give them what they want!

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2888


EDIT: I do not know what I'm talking about

Nice read actually but this caught my eye:
Quote:
So what’s the net benefit from all of this for consumers? At the moment, not a lot, which is why this is a low-key launch for Western Digital, and the focus of this is an education effort on what the use of 4K sectors means for older operating systems. The biggest benefit is going to be that this will enable Western Digital to more easily design drives over 2TB in size.

From a numbers perspective, Western Digital estimates that the use of 4K sectors will give them an immediate 7%-11% increase in format efficiency. ECC burst error correction stands to improve by 50%, and the overall error rate capability improves by 2 orders of magnitude. In theory these reliability benefits should immediately apply to all 4K sector drives (making the Advanced Format drives more reliable than regular drives), but Western Digital is not pushing that idea at this time.
post #68 of 5040
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crabby654;15531304 
Nice read actually but this caught my eye:
Quote:
So what’s the net benefit from all of this for consumers? At the moment, not a lot, which is why this is a low-key launch for Western Digital, and the focus of this is an education effort on what the use of 4K sectors means for older operating systems. The biggest benefit is going to be that this will enable Western Digital to more easily design drives over 2TB in size.

From a numbers perspective, Western Digital estimates that the use of 4K sectors will give them an immediate 7%-11% increase in format efficiency. ECC burst error correction stands to improve by 50%, and the overall error rate capability improves by 2 orders of magnitude. In theory these reliability benefits should immediately apply to all 4K sector drives (making the Advanced Format drives more reliable than regular drives), but Western Digital is not pushing that idea at this time.

That is exactly what I remember originally reading about it a while ago.
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post #69 of 5040
The I guess the question is the relevance to SSDs, rotational media is a sure thing.
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post #70 of 5040
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocturin;15531397 
The I guess the question is the relevance to SSDs, rotational media is a sure thing.

Yep, I just pm'ed a few people, i'll see what info I can get out of them smile.gif
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Samsung 850 Pro Samsung 840 EVO  Samsung 830 Crucial MX100 
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Crucial MX100 WD Blue WD10EZEX Toshiba DT01ACA300 Thermalright Silver Arrow 
OSPowerCase
Windows 7 Pro 64-Bit bequiet! Dark Power Pro 10 850W Corsair 650D 
CPUCPUMotherboardGraphics
Intel Xeon L5520 Intel Xeon L5520 Dell  ASPEED 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Nanya 72GB 1066MHz ECC Registered Kingston V300 SanDisk Extreme II WD Red 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samung Spinpoint F4 Hitachi Deskstar 7K3000 Samsung Spinpoint F3  Seagate 7200.12 
OSPowerCaseOther
Windows Server 2012 Datacenter Dell C1100 PSU and Corsair 650TX  Dell C1100 Chassis and Norco RPC 4224 LSI 9261-8i 
Other
Intel RES2CV240 
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
A8 5600K BIOSTAR Hi-Fi A85W G.Skill Ripjaws X  Crucial M4 
Optical DriveOSMonitorMonitor
Asus DVD Burner Microsoft Windows 7 Professional  ASUS VE276Q HPw1907 
PowerCase
Antec Neo Eco 520 HAF 912 
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Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Hard Drives & Storage › Sean's Windows 7 Install & Optimization Guide for SSDs & HDDs