Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Hard Drives & Storage › Sean's Windows 7 Install & Optimization Guide for SSDs & HDDs
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Sean's Windows 7 Install & Optimization Guide for SSDs & HDDs - Page 85

post #841 of 5384
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindd992002 View Post

Ok. So when you plug in devices that are capable of UEFI-boot, the BCD store is updated and populated accordingly?

Ok, but without anything attached to the computer except the USB drive, the OS drive will surely be assigned as letter C?

Also, I still don't think that making the USB installation disk as active is needed since it is not an OS drive and it has no MBR in it, is this correct? I cannot confirm because my USB disk is in GPT format and doesn't need the active command.

The BCD is updated only if the "device" and location are not already there. if the location exists already, that information is presented in the UEFI.

As a general rule, for a USB drive to be bootable, it must have an active partition.

When you boot to windows install media, you are in fact booting to an OS. It is a minimal OS, but an OS none-the-less. That is why you sit there and watch the white bar "loading windows", Your system loads a minimal set of files that is an Operating System that you use to install windows with. Back in the windows 95/98 days, you first needed to load MS DOS (a basic OS) to system memory before you could even think about placing the Windows install CD into the CD drive. Your bootable USB does indeed contain an MBR. At least a "normal" one does. When you first boot to the USB drive, your UEFI/BIOS looks at this MBR, to locate the active partition, and then executes the bootstrap code from that location.

You are slowly making your point… No I don’t have all the answers… your questions are delving into areas I have never explored before.

I need to do some research, (maybe some experimentation), to see exactly what happens in a GPT formatted USB... (which I presume contains a protective MBR)... but I would also presume you cannot boot this device in BIOS mode... or can you?

Normally, under EFI, the UEFI firmware reads (and understands) drive information it gets directly from the GPT partition table. It then runs the EFI compatible code directly from the drive. Maybe on a USB drive, the MBR can be ignored? I have to assume something is in the MBR location of the USB, for it to be bootable. Then again, under GPT, does the USB drive even need to be bootable as the UEFI itself understands and can read directly from a GPT formatted drive. The UEFI does not require additional bootstrap code (like NTLDR under BIOS) to initiate a boot. The EFI already contains its own boot services.

Now you have me thinking as to how this actually this works with a GPT-USB drive. So to answer your question... I don't have an answer... just questions myself.
Edited by xandypx - 12/1/11 at 9:26pm
Rusty Metal
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 2600K ASUS P8P67 PRO NVIDIA GeForce GTX 580 Corsair Vengeance 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
2 x Corsair Performance 3 SSD 128 GB; RAID 0 2 x Western Digital Black 1TB; RAID 0 Western Digital Black LG BluRay - RE/DVD+/-DL Burner  
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
LG 24x super-multi  Corsair H70 Windows 7 Professional x64 DELL U2711 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
logitech G19 Corsair AX750 Coolermaster Storm Sniper Logitech Performance MX 
Audio
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro  
  hide details  
Reply
Rusty Metal
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 2600K ASUS P8P67 PRO NVIDIA GeForce GTX 580 Corsair Vengeance 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
2 x Corsair Performance 3 SSD 128 GB; RAID 0 2 x Western Digital Black 1TB; RAID 0 Western Digital Black LG BluRay - RE/DVD+/-DL Burner  
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
LG 24x super-multi  Corsair H70 Windows 7 Professional x64 DELL U2711 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
logitech G19 Corsair AX750 Coolermaster Storm Sniper Logitech Performance MX 
Audio
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro  
  hide details  
Reply
post #842 of 5384
Read through it.

Very nice guide. I learny quite a few things from your guide above.

Just a question . I'll be getting an Asus Maximus IV Gene-Z gen3 motherboard soon, and a Corsair Force 90GB SSD to go along with it. Currently I have a 1TB samsung HDD that would function as a data drive while the SSD, an OS drive.

My question is, I should follow the GPT for Windows and UEFI guide for installing Windows 7 right? My previous experience was simply putting in the Disc and installing windows 7. But that was on a conventional HDD. The guide serves only for SSD, am i correct in assuming this? I'll be installing using a USB flashdrive.
Avngl
(21 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 3570k Asus Maximus IV GENE-Z/GEN3 Intel® HD Graphics 4000 2 X 4GB DDR3 Kingston Value Ram 
RAMHard DriveCoolingOS
2 X 4GB DDR3 ECC Kingston Server Ram Corsair Force GT SSD 120GB Noctua NH-D14 Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell Ultrasharp U2412M Logitech G110 Corsair GS700 Silverstone TJ08-E 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Logitech G500 SteelSeries QcK mass Niro Nakamichi 6.1 (HomeTheatre) Superlux HD669 
  hide details  
Reply
Avngl
(21 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 3570k Asus Maximus IV GENE-Z/GEN3 Intel® HD Graphics 4000 2 X 4GB DDR3 Kingston Value Ram 
RAMHard DriveCoolingOS
2 X 4GB DDR3 ECC Kingston Server Ram Corsair Force GT SSD 120GB Noctua NH-D14 Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell Ultrasharp U2412M Logitech G110 Corsair GS700 Silverstone TJ08-E 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Logitech G500 SteelSeries QcK mass Niro Nakamichi 6.1 (HomeTheatre) Superlux HD669 
  hide details  
Reply
post #843 of 5384
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avngl View Post

Read through it.

Very nice guide. I learny quite a few things from your guide above.

Just a question . I'll be getting an Asus Maximus IV Gene-Z gen3 motherboard soon, and a Corsair Force 90GB SSD to go along with it. Currently I have a 1TB samsung HDD that would function as a data drive while the SSD, an OS drive.

My question is, I should follow the GPT for Windows and UEFI guide for installing Windows 7 right? My previous experience was simply putting in the Disc and installing windows 7. But that was on a conventional HDD. The guide serves only for SSD, am i correct in assuming this? I'll be installing using a USB flashdrive.

It is up to you, you can use either. Do you ever make system images as aback up? If so you can only use limited software for GPT.

I use GPT, it really isn't needed. Only if you are experimenting like I am, using a 2.2TB+ HDDs, or are using a bucnch of partitions.

If you want just use MBR. It boots faster anyways lol
post #844 of 5384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Webster View Post

It is up to you, you can use either. Do you ever make system images as aback up? If so you can only use limited software for GPT.
I use GPT, it really isn't needed. Only if you are experimenting like I am, using a 2.2TB+ HDDs, or are using a bucnch of partitions.
If you want just use MBR. It boots faster anyways lol

Hmm. Now i'm confused biggrin.gif

My previous install via a USB drive was done in accordance to this site : http://www.intowindows.com/how-to-install-windows-7vista-from-usb-drive-detailed-100-working-guide/

No special UEFI files was required to be copied over. Just the standard files that are in the .iso of windows 7. I installed it and didn't encounter any errors.

However, the installation onto a SSD requires the extra UEFI files to be copied over to the USB drive correct?

Btw there will not be any partition on the SSD. I plan to install windows 7 onto the whole 90GB. I'll use a 1TB HDD for data storage.
Avngl
(21 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 3570k Asus Maximus IV GENE-Z/GEN3 Intel® HD Graphics 4000 2 X 4GB DDR3 Kingston Value Ram 
RAMHard DriveCoolingOS
2 X 4GB DDR3 ECC Kingston Server Ram Corsair Force GT SSD 120GB Noctua NH-D14 Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell Ultrasharp U2412M Logitech G110 Corsair GS700 Silverstone TJ08-E 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Logitech G500 SteelSeries QcK mass Niro Nakamichi 6.1 (HomeTheatre) Superlux HD669 
  hide details  
Reply
Avngl
(21 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 3570k Asus Maximus IV GENE-Z/GEN3 Intel® HD Graphics 4000 2 X 4GB DDR3 Kingston Value Ram 
RAMHard DriveCoolingOS
2 X 4GB DDR3 ECC Kingston Server Ram Corsair Force GT SSD 120GB Noctua NH-D14 Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell Ultrasharp U2412M Logitech G110 Corsair GS700 Silverstone TJ08-E 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Logitech G500 SteelSeries QcK mass Niro Nakamichi 6.1 (HomeTheatre) Superlux HD669 
  hide details  
Reply
post #845 of 5384
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avngl View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Webster View Post

It is up to you, you can use either. Do you ever make system images as aback up? If so you can only use limited software for GPT.
I use GPT, it really isn't needed. Only if you are experimenting like I am, using a 2.2TB+ HDDs, or are using a bucnch of partitions.
If you want just use MBR. It boots faster anyways lol

Hmm. Now i'm confused biggrin.gif

My previous install via a USB drive was done in accordance to this site : http://www.intowindows.com/how-to-install-windows-7vista-from-usb-drive-detailed-100-working-guide/

No special UEFI files was required to be copied over. Just the standard files that are in the .iso of windows 7. I installed it and didn't encounter any errors.

However, the installation onto a SSD requires the extra UEFI files to be copied over to the USB drive correct?

Btw there will not be any partition on the SSD. I plan to install windows 7 onto the whole 90GB. I'll use a 1TB HDD for data storage.

The UEFI part is only if you install via GPT formatted disk. I you use a MBR formatted disk you don't need the EFI part.

Also, that guide has an extra part to it you don't need. Just do this...
Configure a drive as a boot drive using BIOS and MBR

Click here to see guide! (Click to show)

Guide if you to use a bootable Windows 7 USB: If not then skip to Booting, partitioning and alignment of MBR for Windows and BIOS: Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Make a bootable Windows 7 USB for MBR and BIOS:
  1. Open the Start Menu, type diskpart, press Enter
  2. Type list disk, press Enter
  3. Type select disk 4 (or whichever number your USB drive gets), press Enter
  4. Type clean, press Enter
  5. Type create partition primary, press Enter
  6. Type active, press Enter
  7. Type format quick fs=fat32, press Enter
  8. Type assign, press Enter
  9. Type exit, press Enter
  10. Copy everything from the Windows 7 installation DVD onto the USB key (a simple drag and drop will do; if you have an .iso extract first).

Booting, partitioning and alignment of MBR for Windows and BIOS:
  1. Boot from the Windows 7 DVD/USB
  2. After booting you see the Install Windows 7 screen, press Shift + F10 to open a command prompt.
  3. At the command prompt, Type diskpart, press Enter
  4. Type list disk, press Enter
  5. Type select disk 0 (or whichever number it turns out to be), press Enter
  6. Type clean, press Enter
  7. Type create partition primary align=4096 (1024 is default), press Enter
    Note: If you are using multiple disks in RAID 0 use 1024 for the alignment instead of 4096 for best performance.
  8. Type format quick fs=ntfs, press Enter
  9. Type active, press Enter
  10. Type exit, press Enter
  11. Close the Command Window, and click the Install button.
  12. Proceed to install Windows 7 and perform a normal installation using the "Custom (advanced)" type of installation. You do not have to manually format it.

Special thanks to TwoCables for creating the mini guide above

Then in windows follow the rest of the guide.
post #846 of 5384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Webster View Post

The UEFI part is only if you install via GPT formatted disk. I you use a MBR formatted disk you don't need the EFI part.
Also, that guide has an extra part to it you don't need. Just do this...
Configure a drive as a boot drive using BIOS and MBR
Click here to see guide! (Click to show)
Guide if you to use a bootable Windows 7 USB: If not then skip to Booting, partitioning and alignment of MBR for Windows and BIOS: Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Make a bootable Windows 7 USB for MBR and BIOS:
  1. Open the Start Menu, type diskpart, press Enter
  2. Type list disk, press Enter
  3. Type select disk 4 (or whichever number your USB drive gets), press Enter
  4. Type clean, press Enter
  5. Type create partition primary, press Enter
  6. Type active, press Enter
  7. Type format quick fs=fat32, press Enter
  8. Type assign, press Enter
  9. Type exit, press Enter
  10. Copy everything from the Windows 7 installation DVD onto the USB key (a simple drag and drop will do; if you have an .iso extract first).
Booting, partitioning and alignment of MBR for Windows and BIOS:
  1. Boot from the Windows 7 DVD/USB
  2. After booting you see the Install Windows 7 screen, press Shift + F10 to open a command prompt.
  3. At the command prompt, Type diskpart, press Enter
  4. Type list disk, press Enter
  5. Type select disk 0 (or whichever number it turns out to be), press Enter
  6. Type clean, press Enter
  7. Type create partition primary align=4096 (1024 is default), press Enter
    Note: If you are using multiple disks in RAID 0 use 1024 for the alignment instead of 4096 for best performance.
  8. Type format quick fs=ntfs, press Enter
  9. Type active, press Enter
  10. Type exit, press Enter
  11. Close the Command Window, and click the Install button.
  12. Proceed to install Windows 7 and perform a normal installation using the "Custom (advanced)" type of installation. You do not have to manually format it.
Special thanks to TwoCables for creating the mini guide above
Then in windows follow the rest of the guide.


I see. How do i determine if my disk is MBR formatted or not?
Avngl
(21 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 3570k Asus Maximus IV GENE-Z/GEN3 Intel® HD Graphics 4000 2 X 4GB DDR3 Kingston Value Ram 
RAMHard DriveCoolingOS
2 X 4GB DDR3 ECC Kingston Server Ram Corsair Force GT SSD 120GB Noctua NH-D14 Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell Ultrasharp U2412M Logitech G110 Corsair GS700 Silverstone TJ08-E 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Logitech G500 SteelSeries QcK mass Niro Nakamichi 6.1 (HomeTheatre) Superlux HD669 
  hide details  
Reply
Avngl
(21 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 3570k Asus Maximus IV GENE-Z/GEN3 Intel® HD Graphics 4000 2 X 4GB DDR3 Kingston Value Ram 
RAMHard DriveCoolingOS
2 X 4GB DDR3 ECC Kingston Server Ram Corsair Force GT SSD 120GB Noctua NH-D14 Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell Ultrasharp U2412M Logitech G110 Corsair GS700 Silverstone TJ08-E 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Logitech G500 SteelSeries QcK mass Niro Nakamichi 6.1 (HomeTheatre) Superlux HD669 
  hide details  
Reply
post #847 of 5384
Thread Starter 
When you are in diskpart and type list disk it will have a * under a column marking it as GPT.

I am 100% sure you SSD is MBR formatted so you are good.
post #848 of 5384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Webster View Post

When you are in diskpart and type list disk it will have a * under a column marking it as GPT.
I am 100% sure you SSD is MBR formatted so you are good.

So even if my USB is GPT formatted, it'll be able to install windows 7 flawlessly onto the MBR ssd? And there wouldn't be any performance loss or issues?

Oh btw, This is all that I have to follow right?

Make a bootable Windows 7 USB for MBR and BIOS: Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Open the Start Menu, type diskpart, press Enter
Type list disk, press Enter
Type select disk 4 (or whichever number your USB drive gets), press Enter
Type clean, press Enter
Type create partition primary, press Enter
Type active, press Enter
Type format quick fs=fat32, press Enter
Type assign, press Enter
Type exit, press Enter
Copy everything from the Windows 7 installation DVD onto the USB key (a simple drag and drop will do; if you have an .iso extract first).
Avngl
(21 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 3570k Asus Maximus IV GENE-Z/GEN3 Intel® HD Graphics 4000 2 X 4GB DDR3 Kingston Value Ram 
RAMHard DriveCoolingOS
2 X 4GB DDR3 ECC Kingston Server Ram Corsair Force GT SSD 120GB Noctua NH-D14 Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell Ultrasharp U2412M Logitech G110 Corsair GS700 Silverstone TJ08-E 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Logitech G500 SteelSeries QcK mass Niro Nakamichi 6.1 (HomeTheatre) Superlux HD669 
  hide details  
Reply
Avngl
(21 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 3570k Asus Maximus IV GENE-Z/GEN3 Intel® HD Graphics 4000 2 X 4GB DDR3 Kingston Value Ram 
RAMHard DriveCoolingOS
2 X 4GB DDR3 ECC Kingston Server Ram Corsair Force GT SSD 120GB Noctua NH-D14 Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell Ultrasharp U2412M Logitech G110 Corsair GS700 Silverstone TJ08-E 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Logitech G500 SteelSeries QcK mass Niro Nakamichi 6.1 (HomeTheatre) Superlux HD669 
  hide details  
Reply
post #849 of 5384
Quote:
Originally Posted by xandypx View Post

The BCD is updated only if the "device" and location are not already there. if the location exists already, that information is presented in the UEFI.
As a general rule, for a USB drive to be bootable, it must have an active partition.
When you boot to windows install media, you are in fact booting to an OS. It is a minimal OS, but an OS none-the-less. That is why you sit there and watch the white bar "loading windows", Your system loads a minimal set of files that is an Operating System that you use to install windows with. Back in the windows 95/98 days, you first needed to load MS DOS (a basic OS) to system memory before you could even think about placing the Windows install CD into the CD drive. Your bootable USB does indeed contain an MBR. At least a "normal" one does. When you first boot to the USB drive, your UEFI/BIOS looks at this MBR, to locate the active partition, and then executes the bootstrap code from that location.
You are slowly making your point… No I don’t have all the answers… your questions are delving into areas I have never explored before.
I need to do some research, (maybe some experimentation), to see exactly what happens in a GPT formatted USB... (which I presume contains a protective MBR)... but I would also presume you cannot boot this device in BIOS mode... or can you?

Normally, under EFI, the UEFI firmware reads (and understands) drive information it gets directly from the GPT partition table. It then runs the EFI compatible code directly from the drive. Maybe on a USB drive, the MBR can be ignored? I have to assume something is in the MBR location of the USB, for it to be bootable. Then again, under GPT, does the USB drive even need to be bootable as the UEFI itself understands and can read directly from a GPT formatted drive. The UEFI does not require additional bootstrap code (like NTLDR under BIOS) to initiate a boot. The EFI already contains its own boot services.
Now you have me thinking as to how this actually this works with a GPT-USB drive. So to answer your question... I don't have an answer... just questions myself.

Myself too. Basically, I was able to use a GPT-formatted USB disk to install Windows 7 x64 UEFI-based. The weird thing is that I only created a primary partition in my USB disk for this purpose and it booted without any problems (so much for the three partitions needed to make a drive bootable?).
post #850 of 5384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avngl View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Webster View Post

When you are in diskpart and type list disk it will have a * under a column marking it as GPT.
I am 100% sure you SSD is MBR formatted so you are good.

So even if my USB is GPT formatted, it'll be able to install windows 7 flawlessly onto the MBR ssd? And there wouldn't be any performance loss or issues?

Oh btw, This is all that I have to follow right?

Make a bootable Windows 7 USB for MBR and BIOS: Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Open the Start Menu, type diskpart, press Enter
Type list disk, press Enter
Type select disk 4 (or whichever number your USB drive gets), press Enter
Type clean, press Enter
Type create partition primary, press Enter
Type active, press Enter
Type format quick fs=fat32, press Enter
Type assign, press Enter
Type exit, press Enter
Copy everything from the Windows 7 installation DVD onto the USB key (a simple drag and drop will do; if you have an .iso extract first).

For the purpose of this guide, MBR/GPT has to do with the partitioning of the SSD, not the USB install media.

Following the above steps, you will end up with an MBR formatted USB drive (this is what you want).
There is no need (and possibly some consequences/ the "big" question) to formatting a USB stick to GPT.

Following the above just gets the USB drive to the point where it contains the necessary installation files for windows 7 for a MBR/BIOS install.
If you choose to format your SSD to GPT, and install using UEFI Boot, you will need to follow the extra steps of ensuring the proper .efi code is placed in the proper directory of your USB media.

It is then up to you on whether you install windows 7 to a MBR or GPT partitioned SSD.

@kevindd992002: This may not be the best place for the discussion on GPT formatted USB drives.
The USB info in the last few posts, is beyond the scope of this install guide, and by going OT the way we have, may confuse others that have come to this guide for the basics/not so basic necessities of installing Windows to an SSD. Others may pick up this information, and confuse it with necessary steps for installation as it appears Avngl has.

In response to your last post, the three partitions don't come into play for making a drive "bootable", or are not the reason that you can boot to the USB drive. The install program wouldn't use the "extra" partitions during an install.

After an install of windows 7, the efi uses the first partition the "ESP/EFI" partition for when it needs additional space beyond it's NVRAM, and as a backup for it (GPT redundancy). The msr partition is used by windows for disk operations. Your USB install device doesn't need these, but a full blown windows installation does. Try to run certain disk tasks without the MSR, and windows will present you plenty of BSODs.
Edited by xandypx - 12/2/11 at 5:34am
Rusty Metal
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 2600K ASUS P8P67 PRO NVIDIA GeForce GTX 580 Corsair Vengeance 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
2 x Corsair Performance 3 SSD 128 GB; RAID 0 2 x Western Digital Black 1TB; RAID 0 Western Digital Black LG BluRay - RE/DVD+/-DL Burner  
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
LG 24x super-multi  Corsair H70 Windows 7 Professional x64 DELL U2711 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
logitech G19 Corsair AX750 Coolermaster Storm Sniper Logitech Performance MX 
Audio
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro  
  hide details  
Reply
Rusty Metal
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 2600K ASUS P8P67 PRO NVIDIA GeForce GTX 580 Corsair Vengeance 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
2 x Corsair Performance 3 SSD 128 GB; RAID 0 2 x Western Digital Black 1TB; RAID 0 Western Digital Black LG BluRay - RE/DVD+/-DL Burner  
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
LG 24x super-multi  Corsair H70 Windows 7 Professional x64 DELL U2711 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
logitech G19 Corsair AX750 Coolermaster Storm Sniper Logitech Performance MX 
Audio
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro  
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Hard Drives & Storage
Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Hard Drives & Storage › Sean's Windows 7 Install & Optimization Guide for SSDs & HDDs