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[Xbit] Apple May Dump High-End Mac Pro Desktops - Page 12

post #111 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackeduphard View Post
19k for fully upgraded MAC Pro .... i could build that for 4k .... maybe 6 depending on RAM......

Dell build is about 11k for compairable build .... so idk ..... fail
Apple charges a lot for RAM and hard drive upgrades so if you exclude those it is on par with the Dell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kweechy View Post
Apple will charge you $1,500 to install CPUs that only cost $700 more than the base option. That's going off of retail prices, I'm sure they pay significantly less.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kweechy View Post
Yes several have OSX versions. The issue is that you can't make a company nearly as profitable while running on Mac. Looking at what I'm running in my startup for example, it would cost me $20,000 to have the same render power with Mac that I paid $5,500 for otherwise.
I'm not sure where you got the idea that they charge you $1,500 to upgrade from a $700 model? They're actually on par with Dell workstations. Here's the pricing break down:
Quote:
Single processor Mac Pro:

The 2.8GHz quad-core W3530 costs $315.

The 3.2GHz quad-core W3565 costs $600 which Apple charges $400 to upgrade to this from the W3530 which means you pay an extra $115 based on retail pricing.

The 3.33GHz six-core W3680 costs $600 which Apple charges $1200 to upgrade to this from the W3530 which means you pay an extra $600.

Dual processor Mac Pro:

The dual 2.4GHz quad-core E5620's cost $390 each or $780 total.

The dual 2.66GHz six-core X5650's cost $1000 each or $2000 total. Apple charges $1500 to upgrade to this from the E5620 which means you pay an extra $280.

The dual 2.93GHz six-core X5670's cost $1440 each or $2880 total. Apple charges $2700 to upgrade to this from the E5620 which means you pay an extra $600.
Keep in mind that these CPUs may have been more expensive upon release. I really doubt the now discontinued W3680 was $600 upon release, and the same price as the quad-core W3565.

Regarding your $20,000 vs $5,500 comparison. The only way you can get a Mac Pro that costs $20,000 is if you do all the upgrades via Apple. Who exactly sells a $5,500 workstation with the same specs as this $20,000 Mac Pro, or are you talking about building it yourself?

EDIT: It only costs $6,199 to max out just the processor. You could throw in 8x8GB (64GB) of RAM for $900 and a few hundred for several hard drives and you're only looking at 7.2k How exactly did you come to the "$20,000" figure?
Edited by steelbom - 11/2/11 at 2:32am
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post #112 of 221
@Steelbom you really want to compare Apple's pricing policies?

Let's start with that 5770 that ALL MacPro's come with.

They charge $250 for a 2nd one. Find me 1 retailer that sells a 5770 for $250 today. Speaking of GPU's, if this is a high end workstation, why doesn't it come with a firepro or a Quadro? The competition includes them. Besides everybody knows that Nvidia cards are far more effective thanks to CUDA. It baffles me that Apple includes a measly 5770 for a workstation.

Shall we talk about RAM and Hard Drive upgrades?

I just priced out a MacPro, how much do you think it'll cost to build yourself a similar PC?

Two 2.93GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon “Westmere” (12 cores)
32GB (8x4GB)
Mac Pro RAID Card
512GB solid-state drive
2TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s hard drive
2TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s hard drive
2TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s hard drive
Two ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB
One 18x SuperDrive
Apple LED Cinema Display (27" flat panel)
Apple Magic Mouse
Apple Keyboard with Numeric Keypad (English) & User's Guide
AppleCare Protection Plan for Mac Pro - Auto-enroll

Total: $12,097
Edited by 2010rig - 11/2/11 at 3:15am
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post #113 of 221
About time, I mean, only more and more people are finding out how easy it is to build your own workstation and the thousands saves also give that a bump to popularity; but I'll be damned if the Mac Pro isn't one sexy case.
post #114 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post
Apple charges a lot for RAM and hard drive upgrades so if you exclude those it is on par with the Dell.


I'm not sure where you got the idea that they charge you $1,500 to upgrade from a $700 model? They're actually on par with Dell workstations. Here's the pricing break down:


Keep in mind that these CPUs may have been more expensive upon release. I really doubt the now discontinued W3680 was $600 upon release, and the same price as the quad-core W3565.

Regarding your $20,000 vs $5,500 comparison. The only way you can get a Mac Pro that costs $20,000 is if you do all the upgrades via Apple. Who exactly sells a $5,500 workstation with the same specs as this $20,000 Mac Pro, or are you talking about building it yourself?

EDIT: It only costs $6,199 to max out just the processor. You could throw in 8x8GB (64GB) of RAM for $900 and a few hundred for several hard drives and you're only looking at 7.2k How exactly did you come to the "$20,000" figure?
The $20,000 figure was to price out 48 CineBench pts in Mac computers. Need to run 5 of their dual quads to hit that mark and I require 16GB RAM per machine. So that's a $4,250 Mac x 5.

To be fair, I think Dell's pricing structure is also completely broken.

If your company is nothing more that a glorified parts assembler, charge me per part, do not ALSO charge me a massive mark up on each part.

If I were building someone a system and my general build structure is a dual quad core system...it literally costs me nothing over and above that if my customer would rather me install two 6 cores instead of two 4 cores. Motherboard is the same, everything is the same.

I'm seeing more and more offbrand workstations every year because of this.

Charge me $1,500 in labor and service to build my system and support it, fine. Don't then charge me another $100 just to install 2 RAM sticks for example...I KNOW how long that takes. That is absurd.
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post #115 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by kweechy View Post
To be fair, I think Dell's pricing structure is also completely broken.
I completely agree, not workstation related, but have you tried building an alienware recently? My friend was just on there the other day just seeing how much it would come to and

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post #116 of 221
2.8GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon “Nehalemâ€
3 GB (3 x 1 GB) DDR3
1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s hard drive
ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB
One 18x SuperDrive
No monitor included

All that for £2,041. Now I can see why Apple wants to get rid of it. Only hardcore Apple fanboys would buy that hardware for that price. And the 512GB SSDs cost £1,052 lol jog on Apple. I would only buy their laptops and iPods if I was going to buy something made by Apple.
    
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post #117 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boinz View Post
I completely agree, not workstation related, but have you tried building an alienware recently? My friend was just on there the other day just seeing how much it would come to and

I think anyone charging you large mark ups on computer parts that require no additional effort above and beyond what you already agreed was a fair price for (ie: assembling your machine) won't be in buisiness still in 10 years.

EVEN Apple customers are waking up to this it seems if this rumor is true. You have to think about how incredible that is...

If we've agreed on your pricing sheet that $1,000 is the price I'm paying for labor and support on my machine (ie: whatever money they charge you beyond the parts), why does it become $1,500 just because you took the CPU from another pile?

If you're installing a 2nd drive for me and setting up a RAID, fine, add more to the setup cost...that takes more time than one drive and that's fair. The CPU thing and RAM really gets me though.
Edited by kweechy - 11/2/11 at 3:19am
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post #118 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post
@Steelbom you really want to compare Apple's pricing policies?

Let's start with that 5770 that ALL MacPro's come with.

They charge $250 for a 2nd one. Find me 1 retailer that sells a 5770 for $250 today. Speaking of GPU's, if this is a high end workstation, why doesn't it come with a firepro or a Quadro? The competition includes them. Besides everybody knows that Nvidia cards are far more effective thanks to CUDA. It baffles me that Apple includes a measly 5770 for a workstation.
I'm pretty sure the GPUs for Mac's aren't the same as the GPU's for PCs. The former, unlike the latter, supports EFI and BIOS emulation, which I believe to be hardware related. If it was only software, surely Apple would have a larger range of graphic cards available by now right? My point being they aren't necessarily priced the same as the PC GPUs since they'll probably have a lot less made.
Quote:
Shall we talk about RAM and Hard Drive upgrades?

I just priced out a MacPro, how much do you think it'll cost to build yourself a similar PC?

Two 2.93GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon “Westmere†(12 cores)
32GB (8x4GB)
Mac Pro RAID Card
2TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s hard drive
2TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s hard drive
2TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s hard drive
Two ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB
Two 18x SuperDrives
Apple LED Cinema Display (27" flat panel)
Apple Magic Mouse
Apple Keyboard with Numeric Keypad (English) & User's Guide
AppleCare Protection Plan for Mac Pro - Auto-enroll

Total: $11,000
Your comparison couldn't be anymore wrong. It's well known that you don't buy upgrades from Apple. You can pickup 64GB of RAM from OWC for $900 (not $3,500 for 32GB) and 3x 2TB HDDs for about what? $400? Additionally you included the 27 ACD which is pointless when you're comparing against desktop towers and you also chose the raid card which is pretty useless because it doesn't work under windows (last I heard).

That machine could be about $6,600 if you just upgrade the processor and buy the RAM and HDDs yourself which is about the same from Dell. Additionally, you're comparing this against building your own PC not a pre-built, of course the former is going to win and I'm not arguing that it wouldn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kweechy View Post
The $20,000 figure was to price out 48 CineBench pts in Mac computers. Need to run 5 of their dual quads to hit that mark and I require 16GB RAM per machine. So that's a $4,250 Mac x 5.
It's $3,500 for a dual quad Mac Pro and it costs $70 to get 16GB of RAM from a third party such as otherworldcomputing. Additionally, your comparing this against a pre-built yes? You're not actually suggesting you can get a PC with the equiv. processing power as the above Mac Pro from a retailer for about $1100?
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrews2547 View Post
2.8GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon “Nehalemâ€
3 GB (3 x 1 GB) DDR3
1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s hard drive
ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB
One 18x SuperDrive
No monitor included

All that for £2,041. Now I can see why Apple wants to get rid of it. Only hardcore Apple fanboys would buy that hardware for that price. And the 512GB SSDs cost £1,052 lol jog on Apple. I would only buy their laptops and iPods if I was going to buy something made by Apple.
It's well known they charge way too much for upgrades. As I said, the single processor Mac Pro's are priced intentionally higher so that they don't cannibalise the iMac (it's $1000 more than the equiv. spec'd Dell, last I checked). The dual processor models are on par with its competition.

You'd also really only buy that if you really want or need a Mac, and an iMac doesn't suit you.
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post #119 of 221
How is my comparison wrong? I chose upgrade options that were presented to me.

You're Right they are grossly overpriced, which is the point everyone keeps making, but you keep defending.

If I was the type of person to buy from Apple, I'd be buying the upgraded parts from them. Who buys a Mac and customizes it themselves? Doesn't that fall in the you're doing it wrong category?

If you're gonna custom build you gotta do it right from the get go.

I also modified the build, it's $12k now, with 32GB RAM.

My only SSD option is a 512 GB.
Edited by 2010rig - 11/2/11 at 3:53am
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post #120 of 221
Quote:
Your comparison couldn't be anymore wrong. It's well known that you don't buy upgrades from Apple.
Wait, I'm confused, hasn't your whole argument been about prebuilt macs being reliable and under warranty? If you're not buying the HDD's and ram sticks from Mac, how are they any more reliable or secured under warranty than a custom built, or even the dells?
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