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[Xbit] Apple May Dump High-End Mac Pro Desktops - Page 15

post #141 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post
Not sure what you mean, those are Westmere chips released in 2010.


The reason Apple hasn't refreshed the Mac Pro is that it's waiting on SB-E Xeon processors. There's other hardware that could be added (Thunderbolt, more RAM/HDD space in the base model) but the big reason for most Mac Pro users to upgrade would be the new chipset. Which isn't even shipping yet.
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post #142 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountains View Post
It's more the reverse - Apple perceives a sales (and thus demand) problem and OCN's concluded that pricing is the culprit.
We have a member who is, be it unconfirmed, stating his association with some of the big names in the video industry. He states that they don't use Macs as the cost per performance ratio is much too high compared to the other Windows/Linux builds. He also stated that there is limitations in the OS that restricts them from making efficient computation farms towards whatever they are doing.
Edited by Domino - 11/2/11 at 7:04pm
post #143 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountains View Post


The reason Apple hasn't refreshed the Mac Pro is that it's waiting on SB-E Xeon processors. There's other hardware that could be added (Thunderbolt, more RAM/HDD space in the base model) but the big reason for most Mac Pro users to upgrade would be the new chipset. Which isn't even shipping yet.
Fair enough, did you read the rest of my post? Is a 5770 up to date? They should be using a Quadro or Firepro for a workstation computer.

That MacPro is not worth $5000. The point is, they are overpriced no matter how you look at it.
Edited by 2010rig - 11/2/11 at 7:11pm
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post #144 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post
The Mac Pro is one Apple product that serves absolutely no purpose except for idiots with too much money and people who are too lazy to either edit kexts and make a hackintosh or try linux.
A hackintosh is not something a business would go for. it's specifically against the EULA, not to mention totally unsupported.

Quote:
Originally Posted by d3310n View Post
nobody wants a mac workstation. that is about as far from cost effective as a company can go.

people arent that stupid. im sure most workstations are custom built.
I'm sure most aren't custom buit. Awkwardly Awesome being an exception to the rule.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerPowered View Post
iMacs are a huge waste of money. HUGE! All in ones can't really be upgraded and are basically throw aways after 2-3 years. Plus an i5 ain't much to brag about. The towers were way better products.

A Mac Book Pro with a docking station and Cinema Display is way way smarter. It is the only option I would ever recommend to someone serious about getting a Mac.
If you're going to work in photoshop, as many of the graphical designers I know do, a big screen and a processor that doesn't run into a thermal limiter quickly when you throw hours of work at it makes more sense than a laptop.

The only difference between an i5 and an i7 is HT - and I can't see a well equipped 27" imac being thrown out after 2 or 3 years. My macbook just turned 4, and it's kicking along nicely, with a core2duo, 4GB of ram (and a 150GiB intel SSD). It's perfect for the menial tasks i ask of it, while being able to do HD video playback without issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riou View Post
It just seems like Apple is turning their backs on the professional market. First it was the XServe. Now it can possibly be the Mac Pro. These must have not sold well at all for Apple to make this decision.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
Just a note.... Apple discountinued their rackmount Xservers last November.
In their defense, the quadcore i7 mac mini server is pretty pimp.
for $2200, you can get a half U, 8GB, 4c/8t 2x 256GB SSD server. in a standard 43U 4 post rack, that'd be 172 computers. An idle power draw of only 2400w.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post
I'm pretty sure the GPUs for Mac's aren't the same as the GPU's for PCs. The former, unlike the latter, supports EFI and BIOS emulation, which I believe to be hardware related. If it was only software, surely Apple would have a larger range of graphic cards available by now right? My point being they aren't necessarily priced the same as the PC GPUs since they'll probably have a lot less made.
I put it to you that they are the same. My friend's i7 970 hackintosh has an XFX 5770 with the mac ROM flashed to it - it performs and appears to the OS as an Apple OEM 5770.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JedixJarf View Post
Hope not, then when I build my x79 rig I won't see native chipset support in OS X.
I'm right with you there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varjo View Post
I'm not that surprised. Apple has a history of predicting the future, but making the transition too early. Look at their original imacs that had only USB ports. A couple of years later and it would have been fine, but it was so annoying at the time.
I was of that opinion at the time, but someone had to do it first. When they killed off the floppy drive, I was elated. I've hated those with a passion since the late 80s.
Edited by u3b3rg33k - 11/2/11 at 7:28pm
 
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post #145 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post
I find it amusing how you only quote that part and not me explaining why I think that. There's no reason to expect that a GPU that supports EFI and BIOS emulation is identical to a GPU that only supports BIOS. They can flash PC GPUs but it never works out with the same functionality. I'm not talking about performance here either.
The hardware is the same; that is why I laughed.

Quote:
Your insult is petty, but nonetheless you don't void your warranty by putting in third party RAM. In fact, Apple offers a guide on how to do so.
First off, I wasn't insulting. I'm sorry you took offence to it, but I don't work under a material class system. See, low end developers vary on budget. Low end developers can also refer to many things; either designed for low end hardware or consist of low budgets for example. If you have a low budget, maintaining a warranty is beneficial to your company...financially.

Second, you don't get such a benefit unless you "have an installed base of at least 50 Apple computers, are authorized to repair only the products they own or lease, and may not perform repair work for third parties." [1] Their legal document also states that they do not cover "Problems caused by a device that is not the Covered Equipment, including equipment that is not Apple-branded, whether or not purchased at the same time as the Covered Equipment" [2]. The only way they'll accept 3rd party ram is IFF it is covered by your "covered equipment" package. Also; "Under APP, Apple covers the Covered Equipment and one compatible Apple branded display if purchased at the same time and registered with a covered Mac computer. An Apple-branded mouse and keyboard are also covered under APP if included with the Covered Equipment (or purchased with a Mac mini). An AirPort Extreme Card, an AirPort Express or AirPort Extreme Base Station, Time Capsule, an Apple-branded DVI to ADC display adapter, Apple RAM modules and MacBook Air SuperDrive are also covered under APP if used with the compatible Covered Equipment and originally purchased by you up to two years before your Mac purchase or during the term of your APP. If during the Repair Coverage Period there is a defect in the materials or workmanship of the Covered Equipment or the other covered items described above, Apple will at its option, repair or replace the affected item." [2] Covered Equipment refers to "the accessories that are contained in the product(s) original packaging". [2]

I also found another tidbit of information. Apple does not cover "Third-party products or their effects on or interactions with the Covered Equipment, the Mac OS, Mac OS Server, iPod Software, Apple TV Software or Consumer Software." [2]

[1] http://www.apple.com/ca/support/programs/ssa/
[2] http://images.apple.com/legal/applec...glish_v5.3.pdf
Edited by Domino - 11/2/11 at 7:59pm
post #146 of 221
I am actually pretty interested in hearing how this change is anything but awful for OS X / iOS software development.
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post #147 of 221
Does this mean I'll be able to get a 12 core mac pro for cheap. Kick the bucket already mac pro! By 2013, I'll have two skynet workstations. (SR3 & Mac Pro, do want)
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post #148 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post
Overpriced components, 2 year old hardware is also the problem.

I'm not surprised they're getting out, rather then being competitive.

It wouldn't be Apple like to price things competitively.
As I've said, it isn't overpriced when they charge the same as the competitors. (I'm talking about the dual processor model here and for just CPU upgrades.)

It isn't like Apple to price things competitively? Like the iMac, MacBook Air, Mac Mini, etc., that are all similar if not better value in some cases than the competition?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post
Not sure what you mean, those are Westmere chips released in 2010.

For example, the MacPro that is $4999 comes with 2 E5650's, which retail for $996 each. Now, you know Apple isn't paying retail price to get those.

Even if they were, that's $2000 in processors, the rest of the hardware is no where near $3000 worth, considering it comes with a beefy 5770 + 6 x 1GB DIMM's, 1 TB hard drive...

Maybe the case is worth $2000 who knows.
You don't know how much they pay but we can assume it isn't retail but it isn't for Dell, either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post
Fair enough, did you read the rest of my post? Is a 5770 up to date? They should be using a Quadro or Firepro for a workstation computer.

That MacPro is not worth $5000. The point is, they are overpriced no matter how you look at it.
How are they overpriced yet they charge the same as the competition? (Dual processor)
Quote:
Originally Posted by u3b3rg33k View Post
I put it to you that they are the same. My friend's i7 970 hackintosh has an XFX 5770 with the mac ROM flashed to it - it performs and appears to the OS as an Apple OEM 5770.
Is it able to run two 2560x1600 screens though? The fact that flash'd GPUs don't support them leads me to believe that they can't. I think it shows in System Profiler as well that it can only support 1920x1200 on a second display. Isn't that a hardware issue?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post
The hardware is the same; that is why I laughed.
Quote:
First off, I wasn't insulting. I'm sorry you took offence to it, but I don't work under a material class system. See, low end developers vary on budget. Low end developers can also refer to many things; either designed for low end hardware or consist of low budgets. If you have a low budget, maintaining a warranty is beneficial to your company...financially.
Oh, forget it then. I thought it was a subtle insult considering you've mentioned something along the lines of "... I doubt you're a programmer", etc., at some point IIRC. Never mind.
Quote:
Second, you don't get such a benefit unless you "have an installed base of at least 50 Apple computers, are authorized to repair only the products they own or lease, and may not perform repair work for third parties." [1] Their legal document also states that they do not cover "Problems caused by a device that is not the Covered Equipment, including equipment that is not Apple-branded, whether or not purchased at the same time as the Covered Equipment" [2]. The only way they'll accept 3rd party ram is IFF it is covered by your "covered equipment" package. Also; "Under APP, Apple covers the Covered Equipment and one compatible Apple branded display if purchased at the same time and registered with a covered Mac computer. An Apple-branded mouse and keyboard are also covered under APP if included with the Covered Equipment (or purchased with a Mac mini). An AirPort Extreme Card, an AirPort Express or AirPort Extreme Base Station, Time Capsule, an Apple-branded DVI to ADC display adapter, Apple RAM modules and MacBook Air SuperDrive are also covered under APP if used with the compatible Covered Equipment and originally purchased by you up to two years before your Mac purchase or during the term of your APP. If during the Repair Coverage Period there is a defect in the materials or workmanship of the Covered Equipment or the other covered items described above, Apple will at its option, repair or replace the affected item." [2] Covered Equipment refers to "the accessories that are contained in the product(s) original packaging". [2]

I also found another tibbit of information. Apple does not cover "Third-party products or their effects on or interactions with the Covered Equipment, the Mac OS, Mac OS Server, iPod Software, Apple TV Software or Consumer Software." [2]

[1] http://www.apple.com/ca/support/programs/ssa/
[2] http://images.apple.com/legal/applec...glish_v5.3.pdf
Installing user replaceable parts doesn't void your warranty http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=13946

Here's a few other links from questions asked on Apple Support Communities:
Regarding replacing the hard drive in a MacBook Pro
Adding RAM to a MacBook
Regarding replacing RAM in an iMac
(^^^User points to page 37 in the manual which explains how you do it, I've read similar or the same for a MacBook / Pro too.)
Mac RAM replacement will it void warranty

The answer in every one, as is the case in the link I posted at the very beginning of my reply to you (which funnily enough is actually posted in one of the links I found later by someone on the community) is that you will not void the warranty if you replace your hard drive in a MacBook, or RAM in an iMac or MacBook. They are user replaceable parts.

You, however, are responsible for any damages you do in the process, and will have to pay out of your pocket for repairs. However, that doesn't mean you will be forced to pay non related issues if you are under warranty.

Keep in mind, the MacBook Pro you literally have you unscrew to replace the hard drive or RAM whereas the iMac it's so much easier. You've got three small screws to undo at the bottom of the display and there's your RAM slots.

I have heard if you send your iMac in with third party RAM they can remove it and not return it but I don't really know about that.
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post #149 of 221
The future and savior of workstations:

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post #150 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post
Is it able to run two 2560x1600 screens though? The fact that flash'd GPUs don't support them leads me to believe that they can't. I think it shows in System Profiler as well that it can only support 1920x1200 on a second display. Isn't that a hardware issue?
It runs 2 displays just fine, but triple display support can be problematic - but that's an issue on real macs as well.

As for two 2560x1600 screens, I don't know. don't have any at that resolution.
 
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