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[Xbit] Apple May Dump High-End Mac Pro Desktops - Page 20

post #191 of 221
Just overpriced.
 
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post #192 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountains View Post
Glad to see that this thread has devolved into Mac-bashing, although I'd thank Kweechy for providing what substance there is in this thread.

I'd agree that other workstation manufacturers have a competitive advantage over Apple's offering, but I'm still not particularly enthusiastic about OS X losing the only tower supported by Apple.
Just because we don't agree with Apple's practices, doesn't mean we're bashing Apple. We're discussing why "Apple May Dump High-End Mac Pro Desktops" which is the subject of this thread.

It is very clear for most of us, and that has been demonstrated & backed up with factual evidence, why MacPro's are not an ideal option anymore. The high end market is much more knowledgeable, and in most cases are much better off building themselves.

I rarely play games on my PC, and do a lot of video editing. Before I built my rig the 1st thing I looked at were MacPro's.

With a $2500 budget, there simply was nothing Apple could offer me that was suitable for my needs, I looked for used MacPro's and those too felt outdated for their asking prices of $2000 - $3000.

I then built my rig from scratch, it came in just under $2000, 24/7 it runs at @ 4.1 with HT ON, the 470 does a great job in Premiere. With those extra savings I was able to get a 47" TV which is my primary "monitor". Now with SB-E around the corner, I've got my eyes set on a 3930K + UD5 or ASRock Extreme4.

If I were recommending a workstation for rig for someone today, I would without hesitation recommend a 2600K + Z68 route, or depending on their budget point them towards SB-E.

My biggest beef with current MacPro's is the 5770 + 5870 options. Considering these MacPro's are to be used with Photoshop, Video Editing, etc, those card options just don't make sense.

These 2 links cover this greatly.
http://blogs.adobe.com/premiereprotr...miere-pro.html

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news...uda-only!.aspx

Adobe is getting into GPU acceleration more and more, and they're using CUDA only for that purpose. They even built their Mercury Playback Engine with CUDA, and therefore Premiere Pro is much more optimized on the PC, and you have lots of options to run it.

--------------

I looked into what I could build comparable to what I have now. This comes with a W3530 which is $294 retail.

The price is $4100 without the Apple LED Cinema Display (27" flat panel)


Edited by 2010rig - 11/3/11 at 11:55am
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post #193 of 221
That's all fine and good, but your workstation won't run OS X and still receive official support from a manufacturer (i.e. Apple). Some tasks require OS X, like iOS and OS X software development.

edit: and you've got a non-workstation CPU at present and would recommend non-workstation CPUs? You seem to be making an apples-to-oranges comparison as well.
Edited by mountains - 11/3/11 at 5:41pm
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post #194 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malcolm View Post
I'm sorry, but I don't believe that. Apple has...what...$70 billion in cash? If they were the least bit interested in actually making the Mac Pro a viable option for as many customers as possible (i.e. offering more choices in the VGA area amongst other things) they could do so easily. If Apple weren't so anal-retentive with their closed platform, they could even allow NVIDIA and AMD to write and release official drivers for a wider range of GPUs. NVIDIA and AMD would be happy to do this! My theory as to why they don't allow that and probably never will? It would make Hackintoshing a lot easier, and if that were to happen Apple would start losing sales and money hand over foot.
It's more like $90 billion or something now. Well I'm hoping these rumours aren't true, and that they do something good with it.
Quote:
As I said, Apple isn't exactly a small startup outfit with a limited budget working out of someone's garage. kweechy made an important point several pages back: they have more money than the oil companies. They're not interested in actually offering more choices for potential customers because it might mean they'd have to spend a bit more money and go with a lower margin.

Again, two or three GPU choices in an expensive workstation is pathetic.

Contrast that with the VGA options you have when configuring a Dell Precision T7500:

<snip>

Those are only some, and if you'd like to use a different card that isn't available through Dell, you can buy one from the appropriate retailer and drop it in, along with the latest driver from NVIDIA or AMD.
I agree it is pretty bad they only have two options for the Mac Pro and neither are offered directly from the customisation page.
Quote:
...what?
I was making the argument that it doesn't matter the Mac Pro starts with a 5770 instead of say a basic FirePro or Quadro, because anyone who's dishing out $5k+ for workstation-use, is going to invest in a more expensive workstation GPU.

The difference is, if the basic FirePro or Quadro was sufficient you don't have that on the Mac Pro, or any other choice really. It's the FX 4000 or 4800.
Quote:
Bingo at the bolded part. Apple would sell many more Mac Pros if they actually offered more configuration options. More options = more customers. It's just that their margins would take a hit. What makes you think NVIDIA and AMD wouldn't want more customers just like any other sane company? They both need all the customers they can get.
I agree offering more configuration options would help (GPU-wise) but that's not generally how Apple operates. They give you low, medium, and high options, and then one or two for the GPU. That's how every Mac is, really, it'd be a bit of a stretch for them to change that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by u3b3rg33k View Post
I think I might sense some sarcasm, but regardless:
[img]<snip>
Nay, but oh... didn't think about them
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
steelbom, what industry do you work in? Do you have any role in purchasing servers or workstations?
There's more to it (which I keep private) but I'm a programmer. I've bought several Mac Pro's quite along time ago but none recently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post
you said 3rd party. next time read. apple does not warrant 3rd party for you.

ram chcked by apple is not 3rd party. i advize you google what a 3rd party is. wiki has a link for you.
Sigh... you need to read what I'm saying.

1) I said third party RAM and I'm still saying it

2) I'm well aware third party RAM isn't "Apple RAM" and the links I posted don't have anything to do with Apple RAM. Go read them for goodness sakes

3) I never said the third party RAM is covered under warranty (i.e, if it fails they're not replacing it for free, you'll have to go back to where you bought it)

4) The fact that the third party RAM isn't covered under warranty doesn't mean the warranty of your Mac is void

You've been arguing all this time that adding third party RAM (from a company other than Apple) will void the warranty of a Mac, and I'm telling you outright that it won't. As did every single one of those threads above.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You quoted that legal document which has to do with them covering under warranty the products that they sell you but not products they didn't sell you, not voiding the warranty on your Mac because you put in third party RAM.
Edited by steelbom - 11/3/11 at 7:10pm
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post #195 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountains View Post
That's all fine and good, but your workstation won't run OS X and still receive official support from a manufacturer (i.e. Apple). Some tasks require OS X, like iOS and OS X software development.

edit: and you've got a non-workstation CPU at present and would recommend non-workstation CPUs? You seem to be making an apples-to-oranges comparison as well.
hmm, no idea what you're talking about now.

I don't run OS X, nor do I want to. I don't develop OS X software either, so those points are irrelevant.

I was talking about MY particular situation which is video editing, with Adobe Premiere, and my $2500 budget.

My CPU @ 4.1 with HT ON crushes anything I throw at it ( Premiere, Photoshop ) In a couple weeks, I'll have a 3930K.

The W3530 is based on the same Nehalem architecture as my 930, except mine is running 1.3 GHZ faster than the one in the MacPro.

I can also play games on my computer, it's not your standard workstation, and wasn't meant to be. All I said was that before I built my computer I looked at MacPro's FIRST, and it made more sense to build myself instead.
Edited by 2010rig - 11/3/11 at 8:01pm
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post #196 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post
Nay, but oh... didn't think about them
It'd make a perfect x-serve replacement if they made one with a sandy xeon and ECC ram (and possibly a slightly beefier cooling system).
 
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post #197 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post
hmm, no idea what you're talking about now.

I don't run OS X, nor do I want to. I don't develop OS X software either, so those points are irrelevant.
Why is what you do relevant? There are more people who use workstation computers than you, personally.
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post #198 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountains View Post
Why is what you do relevant? There are more people who use workstation computers than you, personally.
hmm, because you replied to MY post, where I was talking about why I chose to self build over a MacPro.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountains View Post
That's all fine and good, but your workstation won't run OS X and still receive official support from a manufacturer (i.e. Apple). Some tasks require OS X, like iOS and OS X software development.

edit: and you've got a non-workstation CPU at present and would recommend non-workstation CPUs? You seem to be making an apples-to-oranges comparison as well.
I would definitely recommend a 2600K build over a MacPro build any day of the of the week. Run it 24/7 @ 4.7, with all the money saved, you can put a Quadro in it, and it'd still be cheaper than a MacPro.

I'm not the only one. Read this post again:
http://www.overclock.net/rumors-unco...l#post15553000
Edited by 2010rig - 11/3/11 at 8:54pm
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post #199 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post
hmm, no idea what you're talking about now.

I don't run OS X, nor do I want to. I don't develop OS X software either, so those points are irrelevant.

I was talking about MY particular situation which is video editing, with Adobe Premiere, and my $2500 budget.

My CPU @ 4.1 with HT ON crushes anything I throw at it ( Premiere, Photoshop ) In a couple weeks, I'll have a 3930K.

The W3530 is based on the same Nehalem architecture as my 930, except mine is running 1.3 GHZ faster than the one in the MacPro.

I can also play games on my computer, it's not your standard workstation, and wasn't meant to be. All I said was that before I built my computer I looked at MacPro's FIRST, and it made more sense to build myself instead.
Unless you need Xeons for some extreme stability you're better off going with a custom built i7 like you did anyway. It's too bad that Apple charges +$1k over the equiv. from Dell, despite being practically identical and also too bad it's neglected.

Out of curiosity if you could've gotten a base Mac Pro but w/ the 3.33GHz six-core for $2500 would you have done it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by u3b3rg33k View Post
It'd make a perfect x-serve replacement if they made one with a sandy xeon and ECC ram (and possibly a slightly beefier cooling system).
That would be pretty awesome...
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post #200 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post
Unless you need Xeons for some extreme stability you're better off going with a custom built i7 like you did anyway. It's too bad that Apple charges +$1k over the equiv. from Dell, despite being practically identical and also too bad it's neglected.

Out of curiosity if you could've gotten a base Mac Pro but w/ the 3.33GHz six-core for $2500 would you have done it?

That would be pretty awesome...
If it included some sort of Nvidia card ( GTX 480 TF2 ), most likely, yes. Preferably a Quadro 4000, absolutely!

I'd be willing to downgrade to the X5570 + Quadro 4000.

I'd pay $3000 easily for that.

Realistically, Apple would sell it closer to $4500, then I'd be back at square one.
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