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[HardOCP] Seasonic Platinum-1000W Review - Page 3

post #21 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riou View Post
The 120mm San Ace 9S1212F404 fan has ball-bearings not sleeve-bearing.
Well, it gets louder than the HCP's for sure. IIRC, those get up to 40dB (if you care).
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post #22 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Doe View Post
Oh, now I see it. They had the back of the PCB (transformer - VRM's) stickied to the shroud to expand cooling. It still doesn't make up for more heatsinks though.



I don't like the fact that they make such unit, then cheap out a little on heatsinks. It starts loading from 48C

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/...upply_review/4

The 4-5 year old TPQ-850 with the 80mm fan begins loading at 25C, seriously.

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php...Story3&reid=58

Find something to cool these down further, not like it's hard to do after building such PSU.
The intake temperature on the Platinum-1000 was 45C and its exhaust was 48C. If you must make this inaccurate comparison (of a characteristic that is highly variable) you should be using the same methodology for both...so this review for the Antec http://www.hardocp.com/article/2007/...quattro_850w/4

That was a 45C/47C split but to do that the Antec was moving a larger volume of air, the fan was spinning fast to start with, and it was loud right off the bat. Sure, Seasonic could possibly have done something to reduce that 3C difference, but it likely would have meant cranking the fan speed way up. In the end though, it is literally not an issue.

As for the Platinum-1000 vs. HCP-1200, the numbers are what the numbers are.
Edited by [Spectre] - 11/4/11 at 1:19pm
post #23 of 67
I know Paul. For a fact, I put your reviews on top of Jeremy's. Reason being Corsair ads and some bias I see towards that brand on there (but that's not the point).

According to Jon's review, TPQ-850 had a silent fan. But yeah, I'd expect it to be louder (the TPQ's - not HCP). That said, more heatsinks would have helped lowering down this unit's temps. Not a necessity, but would have been better that way.

As for the HCP... the line on the flash banner of JG (from your review) is "king of PSU's". That tells it for me.
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post #24 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Doe View Post
Oh, now I see it. They had the back of the PCB (transformer - VRM's) stickied to the shroud to expand cooling. It still doesn't make up for more heatsinks though.
Umm...that's called innovation. They're not cheaping out. The reason the unit loads hotter is because it's passively cooled at low loads.

As for your other points:
The fan is a Dual Ball Bearing San Ace fan that only goes up to 36dB(A), which is not louder than the HCP-1200 which goes up to
The HCP-1200's fan goes up to 35.8dB(A) according to San Ace, which they both are from the same company even.

Comparing Seasonic & Delta's soldering is a moot point since they're both using similar techniques and the quality is just about equal on the two. EXCEPT the HCP-1200 has those ugly solder joints on the modular PCB.

The Seasonic is also fully modular which is a benefit in some users minds.

The Seasonic unit also has better voltage regulation on the HardOCP Tests when you compare the two units. You cannot argue that the voltage did not shift at all when compared to the HCP which does shift by almost 2%.

Also, they're both Full Bridge topologies. The difference is the HCP is a ZVT-Phase Shift Full Bridge, while the Seasonic is a LLC Resonant Full Bridge design (which is the same design Antec used in their HCP-750/850/1000w units.)

Any way you cut this, Seasonic has the better design in almost all regards. The only situation where I would argue Delta/Antec have a better design is when you consider costs.

Though, Seasonic has a "cheaper" version of this unit in 80+ Gold fashion which will perform equally except slightly less efficient. All this means, is that at the end of the day, you'll see a 1000w unit that's more expensive than the other due to the greater efficiency.

The two units are very good, and when you consider the price; the Antec seems like a better option due to it having 200w's more power available, but most people don't even need that much power.
When the MSRP comes out on the 80+ Gold Seasonic X-1200 we will see who has the better unit since if it comes in at $300 like the Antec HCP-1200; then Seasonic will officially have a better unit which is rated at the same power output.

One of the more important facets of these units is the low load efficiency, which when you compare them on the 100w load pattern; the X-1000XP is about 85% efficient while the HCP-1200 is 83% efficient. If you compare their 10% vs 10% load results as well, you get a similar difference of 1 - 1.5%.
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post #25 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tator Tot View Post
Umm...that's called innovation. They're not cheaping out. The reason the unit loads hotter is because it's passively cooled at low loads.

As for your other points:
The fan is a Dual Ball Bearing San Ace fan that only goes up to 36dB(A), which is not louder than the HCP-1200 which goes up to
The HCP-1200's fan goes up to 35.8dB(A) according to San Ace, which they both are from the same company even.

Comparing Seasonic & Delta's soldering is a moot point since they're both using similar techniques and the quality is just about equal on the two. EXCEPT the HCP-1200 has those ugly solder joints on the modular PCB.

The Seasonic unit also has better voltage regulation on the HardOCP Tests when you compare the two units. You cannot argue that the voltage did not shift at all when compared to the HCP which does shift by almost 2%.

Also, they're both Full Bridge topologies. The difference is the HCP is a ZVT-Phase Shift Full Bridge, while the Seasonic is a LLC Resonant Full Bridge design (which is the same design Antec used in their HCP-750/850/1000w units.)

Any way you cut this, Seasonic has the better design in almost all regards. The only situation where I would argue Delta/Antec have a better design is when you consider costs.

Though, Seasonic has a "cheaper" version of this unit in 80+ Gold fashion which will perform equally except slightly less efficient. All this means, is that at the end of the day, you'll see a 1000w unit that's more expensive than the other due to the greater efficiency.

The two units are very good, and when you consider the price; the Antec seems like a better option due to it having 200w's more power available, but most people don't even need that much power.
When the MSRP comes out on the 80+ Gold Seasonic X-1200 we will see who has the better unit since if it comes in at $300 like the Antec HCP-1200; then Seasonic will officially have a better unit which is rated at the same power output.

One of the more important facets of these units is the low load efficiency, which when you compare them on the 100w load pattern; the X-1000XP is about 85% efficient while the HCP-1200 is 83% efficient. If you compare their 10% vs 10% load results as well, you get a similar difference of 1 - 1.5%.
Well, yes they are. On the front side, the unit lacks a fair amount of heatsink. The secondary uses little aluminum tins for cooling.

While the HCP has a similar fan (as you said), it cools better AT the same noise level.

I didn't compare their soldering.

Yes, the SeaSonic doesn't move in regulation. It regulates better than most other units including the HCP (by a little amount).

And build quality wise, the HCP is superior.

With those said, efficiency differences are miniscule. And the HCP is going for nearly the same price right now. So obviously, the HCP wins.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371043

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817151105
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post #26 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Doe View Post
Well, yes they are. On the front side, the unit lacks a fair amount of heatsink. The secondary uses little aluminum tins for cooling.
It doesn't matter what the size of the heatsinks are if they're able to do the same job, which they are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Doe View Post
While the HCP has a similar fan (as you said), it cools better AT the same noise level.
Except the 120mm San Ace fan produces a higher amount of airflow and the temperatures are comparable on the exhaust side of things, as the HCP-1200's exhaust temp is 62*C and the X-1000XP's exhaust temp is 63*C.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Doe View Post
And build quality wise, the HCP is superior.
Except the X-1000XP uses higher quality parts in it so that it can achieve higher efficiency. The theoretical max output of the components used in the X-1000XP is higher than that of the HCP-1200.
The HCP-1200 has lower quality soldering on the modular connector panel.
They both have equal soldering on the main PCB(s), and the capacitor choice is equal.

In what regard does the HCP-1200 win?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Doe View Post
With those said, efficiency differences are miniscule. And the HCP is going for nearly the same price right now. So obviously, the HCP wins.
Numbers are numbers and a win is a win.

You weren't right on JonnyGuru and you're not right here. Don't turn this into another 12 page argument where you're not quoting any facts.

The only thing the HCP-1200 has over the X-1000XP is OCP. Though, OCP is set at 50A which makes it effectively useless. If you're really concerned about this fact, then import a BeQuiet! P10 1000w or 1200w which is based on this same platform and will feature the ability to switch between OCP & Single Rail mode, as well as having a quieter fan and some extra fan control options.
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post #27 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tator Tot View Post
It doesn't matter what the size of the heatsinks are if they're able to do the same job, which they are.
It's the little things that make the difference for me. When you're comparing two top-end units of similar power, you have to get down to the smallest detail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tator Tot View Post
Except the 120mm San Ace fan produces a higher amount of airflow and the temperatures are comparable on the exhaust side of things, as the HCP-1200's exhaust temp is 62*C and the X-1000XP's exhaust temp is 63*C.
At low loads (which is what would happen most the time), the HCP works cooler. X-1000 is only a degree cooler at full load due to 120mm over 80 (nobody would run at full capacity so that's moot).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tator Tot View Post
Except the X-1000XP uses higher quality parts in it so that it can achieve higher efficiency. The theoretical max output of the components used in the X-1000XP is higher than that of the HCP-1200.

The HCP-1200 has lower quality soldering on the modular connector panel.
They both have equal soldering on the main PCB(s), and the capacitor choice is equal.

In what regard does the HCP-1200 win?
Because efficiency is related to build quality, right? The theoretical peak of the VRM of X-1000 makes no sense either, the unit would be limited by other components (explode) before it can reach that point.

Soldering... yeah, doesn't matter much though. The HCP has a better topology. Dual-PCB with one more cap, and with a 80mm turbine over the overheaded 120mm fan of X-1000.

It IS a higher quality make unit. Period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tator Tot View Post
You weren't right on JonnyGuru and you're not right here. Don't turn this into another 12 page argument where you're not quoting any facts.
What does that have to do with this discussion? You're going off topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tator Tot View Post
The only thing the HCP-1200 has over the X-1000XP is OCP. Though, OCP is set at 50A which makes it effectively useless. If you're really concerned about this fact, then import a BeQuiet! P10 1000w or 1200w which is based on this same platform and will feature the ability to switch between OCP & Single Rail mode, as well as having a quieter fan and some extra fan control options.
Yes, though it'd come in more expensive. Personally, I'd just get the HCP.
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post #28 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Doe View Post
It's the little things that make the difference for me. When you're comparing two top-end units of similar power, you have to get down to the smallest detail.
Except you're arguing a detail which doesn't effect the build quality or electrical performance of a unit. You're concerned with something that doesn't matter.

If we really want to argue these things, then I could say the X-1000XP is better because the sleeving goes farther up the end of the connector compared to the HCP-1200, where the sleeving terminates over an inch away from the start of the connector.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Doe View Post
At low loads (which is what would happen most the time), the HCP works cooler. X-1000 is only a degree cooler at full load due to 120mm over 80 (nobody would run at full capacity so that's moot).
You have it backwards, on the HCP & X Platinum tests, the X-1000XP was running about 1*C cooler at 20% load, and 1*C higher at 100% load.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Doe View Post
Because efficiency is related to build quality, right? The theoretical peak of the VRM of X-1000 makes no sense either, the unit would be limited by other components (explode) before it can reach that point.

Soldering... yeah, doesn't matter much though. The HCP has a better topology. Dual-PCB with one more cap, and with a 80mm turbine over the overheaded 120mm fan of X-1000.

It IS a higher quality make unit. Period.
Dual PCB or an extra filtering capacitor on the primary side does not make the build quality better. You don't understand PSU design or what a ZVT-Phase Shift is.

Both of these units are Full Bridge units, the only difference comes in on the primary side, not the secondary side. The secondary side is the more important factor here, as it is where you get your output from.

Soldering is very important regarding build quality, because bad soldering means you can get either higher voltage losses or cracking solder over time, which leads to a part coming disconnected.

For that matter, 2 PCB's or more components in the equation can be seen as a down side; due to it meaning there's more parts which gives you a higher chance of something failing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Doe View Post
What does that have to do with this discussion? You're going off topic.
You don't like to be wrong and like to draw out these discussions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Doe View Post
Yes, though it'd come in more expensive. Personally, I'd just get the HCP.
You said your self you're concerned with the fine details and that would make it worth it to your own criteria.
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post #29 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tator Tot View Post
The only thing the HCP-1200 has over the X-1000XP is OCP. Though, OCP is set at 50A which makes it effectively useless. If you're really concerned about this fact, then import a BeQuiet! P10 1000w or 1200w which is based on this same platform and will feature the ability to switch between OCP & Single Rail mode, as well as having a quieter fan and some extra fan control options.
Oh yeah Be Quiet! PSUs are beast..
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post #30 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by adridu59 View Post
Oh yeah Be Quiet! PSUs are beast..
Not really, depends on the unit.

Most of them are either "decent" FSP units, or "good" FSP units. With two new HEC units that fall into the decent category.

They haven't had anything "bad" since the Dark Power Pro P8 900w, 1000w, & 1200w units. (Since their 12v ripple went out of spec at full load.) Though, they've not had anything that good either.

Their new P10 850w, 1000w, & 1200w unit will be based on this design from Seasonic with the standard BeQuiet! flair. Which will make them great options for EU Customers considering the price hike that Seasonic units get in EU because of their name.
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Core i5 3570K  Biostar TZ774XE Power Color AX5770 1GB 4x4GB 1866Mhz 9-10-9-27-2T 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB Western Digital Green 2TB Samsung Spinpoint M4 500GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Intel X-25M G2 80GB Lite-On BluRay Drive Arctic Cooling Freezer 13 Pro Windows 7 Ultimate 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell U2212HM Deck Legend Frost Tactile Silverstone Strider Plus 750w Custom Acrylic Test Bed 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Logitech G500 Cooler Master Storm Tactics FPS Beyer Dynamics DT-990 600ohm Samson MediaOne 3A 
AudioAudioOtherOther
FiiO E09k QOGIR FiiO E17 ALPEN Microsoft Lifecam Studio Blue Yeti Pro Microphone 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD A10-A5800K ASRock FM2A85X-ITX Radeon HD7770 1GB 2x8GB 1866mhz C9 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
SanDisk Ultra Plus 128GB 2TB 5400 RPM  24x DVD Drive Noctua L9A 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Home Premium 32" IPS TV Logitech K400 Seasonic G360 
CaseMouseAudio
Cooler Master Elite 120 Advanced Logitech K400 Trackpad Custom 2.1 Home Theater Setup 
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Test Bed
(24 items)
 
TTTbox
(15 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i5 3570K  Biostar TZ774XE Power Color AX5770 1GB 4x4GB 1866Mhz 9-10-9-27-2T 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB Western Digital Green 2TB Samsung Spinpoint M4 500GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Intel X-25M G2 80GB Lite-On BluRay Drive Arctic Cooling Freezer 13 Pro Windows 7 Ultimate 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell U2212HM Deck Legend Frost Tactile Silverstone Strider Plus 750w Custom Acrylic Test Bed 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Logitech G500 Cooler Master Storm Tactics FPS Beyer Dynamics DT-990 600ohm Samson MediaOne 3A 
AudioAudioOtherOther
FiiO E09k QOGIR FiiO E17 ALPEN Microsoft Lifecam Studio Blue Yeti Pro Microphone 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD A10-A5800K ASRock FM2A85X-ITX Radeon HD7770 1GB 2x8GB 1866mhz C9 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
SanDisk Ultra Plus 128GB 2TB 5400 RPM  24x DVD Drive Noctua L9A 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Home Premium 32" IPS TV Logitech K400 Seasonic G360 
CaseMouseAudio
Cooler Master Elite 120 Advanced Logitech K400 Trackpad Custom 2.1 Home Theater Setup 
  hide details  
Reply
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