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Bic PL-200 for 280USD?

post #1 of 12
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Is this a good deal for this woofer or should I settle for the cheaper F-12. My room is not a big room, its a medium to small sized room but I've been advised by a decent amount of people to get a better sub than an F-12. I have never had a dedicated sub before and this sub would be used for a 5.1 setup I plan on assembling during winter break.
post #2 of 12
I can't tell for sure, but the only difference I can see from the F-12 and the PL-200 is the amp. Both of which are rated very weird. 125RMS/475W peak, vs 250RMS/1000peak.

In my opinion, anyone using peak figures like this is out to dupe people. I would avoid the brand all together on principal if it were an option.

Assuming the 2 subs are equal as far as the box and driver are concerned, and we believe the RMS ratings to be relevant, the 250W PL-200 would actually only be good for an additional 3DB over the F-12, and that will only apply in frequency ranges where the driver has not already reached it's X-max under the available box loading. Considering the fact that it appears to be a small vented enclosure, I suspect that the driver loading is pretty loose and tuned pretty high, which means that adding more watts is not necessarily going to do anything useful.
     
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post #3 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post
I can't tell for sure, but the only difference I can see from the F-12 and the PL-200 is the amp. Both of which are rated very weird. 125RMS/475W peak, vs 250RMS/1000peak.

In my opinion, anyone using peak figures like this is out to dupe people. I would avoid the brand all together on principal if it were an option.

Assuming the 2 subs are equal as far as the box and driver are concerned, and we believe the RMS ratings to be relevant, the 250W PL-200 would actually only be good for an additional 3DB over the F-12, and that will only apply in frequency ranges where the driver has not already reached it's X-max under the available box loading. Considering the fact that it appears to be a small vented enclosure, I suspect that the driver loading is pretty loose and tuned pretty high, which means that adding more watts is not necessarily going to do anything useful.
The enclosure is actually tuned relatively low (high by my standards, but low). I think it was somewhere around 36-38Hz or so tune frequency (I could be mistaken its been a while since I tested home theater equipment like this). The one I tested did 28Hz just fine audible. The Dayton SUB120 (same room) did down to around 30Hz audible. This was the F1 and SUB120 though.

The PL-200 is just a bigger amp with a slightly more powerful driver. Bash makes solid subwoofer amplifiers, so its a good choice.
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post #4 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by pioneerisloud View Post
The enclosure is actually tuned relatively low (high by my standards, but low). I think it was somewhere around 36-38Hz or so tune frequency (I could be mistaken its been a while since I tested home theater equipment like this). The one I tested did 28Hz just fine audible. The Dayton SUB120 (same room) did down to around 30Hz audible. This was the F1 though.

The PL-200 is just a bigger amp. Bash makes solid subwoofer amplifiers, so its a good choice.
Excellent info!

Personally i consider 36hz to be relatively high loading for a 12" sub... Most people use subs like this in home theater, where there are many impacts and explosions and such reaching down into the 20hz range in movies. In fact, almost all audio programs include some nuances (intended or not) reaching down below 30hz. Sometimes it's nothing more than the pop of a vocal opening up on the mic, or the natural harmonics of the drums and bass lines, either way, those frequencies are generally there, and can be felt, and they will being a "presence" to a system that I feel is worth having if possible.

I've build speakers with 5" woofers that could play down to 40hz at very respectable listening levels. I know lower tuning is possible without major efficiency losses on a properly selected 12" driver.
Edited by mdocod - 11/3/11 at 3:32am
     
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post #5 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post
Excellent info!

Personally i consider 36hz to be relatively high loading for a 12" sub... Most people use subs like this in home theater, where there are many impacts and explosions and such reaching down into the 20hz range in movies. In fact, almost all audio programs include some nuances (intended or not) reaching down below 30hz. Sometimes it's nothing more than the pop of a vocal opening up on the mic, or the natural harmonics of the drums and bass lines, either way, those frequencies are generally there, and can be felt, and they will being a "presence" to a system that I feel is worth having if possible.

I've build speakers with 5" woofers that could play down to 40hz at very respectable listening levels. I know lower tuning is possible without major efficiency losses on a properly selected 12" driver.
Well my budget is limited at this time. I would have to wait till summer to get a more expensive sub like the HSU STF-2
post #6 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post
Excellent info!

Personally i consider 36hz to be relatively high loading for a 12" sub... Most people use subs like this in home theater, where there are many impacts and explosions and such reaching down into the 20hz range in movies. In fact, almost all audio programs include some nuances (intended or not) reaching down below 30hz. Sometimes it's nothing more than the pop of a vocal opening up on the mic, or the natural harmonics of the drums and bass lines, either way, those frequencies are generally there, and can be felt, and they will being a "presence" to a system that I feel is worth having if possible.

I've build speakers with 5" woofers that could play down to 40hz at very respectable listening levels. I know lower tuning is possible without major efficiency losses on a properly selected 12" driver.
I do agree. However the BIC subwoofers do extend lower than tuned frequency. That's just where they're tuned at, and that's just off my memory, I could be off. It might be lower tuned.

My personal 12" subwoofer is tuned at 30Hz and it extends fluidly down to 18Hz just fine. 30Hz is just where its "optimal" frequency is at.

If you look at the driver alone on those BIC subwoofers, its a pretty beefy sub (comparatively speaking to other home subs). It's got a huge surround, and the magnet is pretty decently sized. It's got the ability to do some serious excursion, that will help it reach lower.
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post #7 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pioneerisloud View Post
I do agree. However the BIC subwoofers do extend lower than tuned frequency. That's just where they're tuned at, and that's just off my memory, I could be off. It might be lower tuned.

My personal 12" subwoofer is tuned at 30Hz and it extends fluidly down to 18Hz just fine. 30Hz is just where its "optimal" frequency is at.

If you look at the driver alone on those BIC subwoofers, its a pretty beefy sub (comparatively speaking to other home subs). It's got a huge surround, and the magnet is pretty decently sized. It's got the ability to do some serious excursion, that will help it reach lower.
Lol no need to wait then for summer to blow more money on a sub? As a college student I don't know if I want to do this...i think I want to sit with the PL-200 or the LSP12 (which people say is better musically and should be good enough for HT).

I am not a pure audiophile...my first subs people haha or maybe its just the naive boy in me wanting to get the sub ASAP
post #8 of 12
Either of those subs will do a fine job honestly. The LSP12 is probably going to be the better option, but I have a feeling the BIC will extend a little bit lower. Either one will do a great job though for their price.
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post #9 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pioneerisloud View Post
Either of those subs will do a fine job honestly. The LSP12 is probably going to be the better option, but I have a feeling the BIC will extend a little bit lower. Either one will do a great job though for their price.
from what i hear it does extend a bit lower which makes it ideal for HT but I also want music as well. I guess I'll be going with th LSP 12 for now since its better all around. I might look into the VK-12 and see if thats a bit better for music.

Not gonna get anything until I have gotten the two DV 64 towers and see if I can live w/o the bass. I just hate having an incomplete system
post #10 of 12
A lot of people are happy with the PL-200. I'd want something flatter, but it's still a decent sub for the money.

Here's a very thorough review of it:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1350479

Closing thoughts on the review:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post
Overall I thought this subwoofer did some things well and others not so well. It is cheap, looks great and is compact. However it does have a peaky base response and limited range. It really doesn’t do much to speak of below 30hz and with the top end roll off is pretty much limited to being most effective from 30-100hz at most. Looking at the maximum long term output and the CEA2010 output numbers compared with the other subs I have measured historically the PL-200 is down at the bottom of the pile. However this really should come as no surprise since it is the cheapest, lightest and smallest subwoofer I have ever tested to date. The output is about what you can expect from something of this size and price. The distortion performance was surprisingly good though, and it is a rugged unit with good overload characteristics. I wouldn’t recommend it for larger rooms or people that like to listen loudly, but a pair could probably do a decent job for most spaces. If anything I would finger the driver used as the weak link in the chain. Simply using a driver with better top end performance and efficiency could probably squeeze another 5db or more average output from the sub above 50hz I have no doubt. The low end performance is limited by the enclosure size, tuning and the amplifier power so there won’t be any huge gains there but just improving the top end would be huge.
edit: I didn't realize you were also looking at the Lava LSP12. Here's a review of that - not as thorough as the above:
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...sp12-subwoofer
Edited by gorb - 11/7/11 at 7:44am
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