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Does the sidewinder X4 have some type of NKRO capability? - Page 3

post #21 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulHDietz;15577497 
Fortunately, I have a rather thick skin (and some would say, a thick head)...
smile.gif

Anyhow, I understand the sentiment about marketing. We really didn't do too much to publicize the X4.

Looking back on it, one of the marketers told me we really messed up by pricing the X4 so low. True "Anti-ghosting" is a very high-end feature. The low price confuses people, and they end up comparing it to similarly priced keyboards rather than similarly capable keyboards. We certainly didn't help matters by implying that it is a lesser model than the X6. The truth is that the X4 was originally supposed to be a less expensive model to follow the X6, but when it was in design, we managed to sneak in our new resistive multitouch technology, which really doesn't add much to the cost. We ended up mostly following the original positioning plan, releasing the X4 as a lower-cost gaming keyboard, even though it has this awesome feature that the X6 lacks. Of course, the X6 has features that the X4 lacks, and it is actually more expensive to manufacture. From that perspective, the relative pricing makes sense. But it's still unfortunate that people often miss what a ridiculously good value the X4 really is...

That said, I want to correct one bit of easily confusable marketing. While you can press "up to 26 keys", the reporting structure has limits on the numbers of certain classes of keys. It would be fairer to say that you can press 17 arbitrary keys (not counting the special keys). We have a page up that explains this in excruciating detail:

http://www.microsoft.com/appliedsciences/content/projects/SideWinderX4.aspx

The 26 is true, but it's not any 26 - it has to be certain types of keys. Of course, it's common in the industry to talk about the max number that can be reported rather than the max number of arbitrary keys that are guaranteed to be reported correctly. That number is 2 for the grand majority of keyboards, including most gaming boards. Many of those high-end mechanical gaming boards are limited to 6 over USB. By this measure, our 17 is awesome.

Finally, to answer an earlier question, the technique we used doesn't actually require a special driver. So the basic functionality works under other operating systems. However, things like macros and media keys require our driver to function correctly.

Hope this helps!


Thanks for the post Paul!
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post #22 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulHDietz;15577497 
Fortunately, I have a rather thick skin (and some would say, a thick head)...
smile.gif

Anyhow, I understand the sentiment about marketing. We really didn't do too much to publicize the X4.

Looking back on it, one of the marketers told me we really messed up by pricing the X4 so low. True "Anti-ghosting" is a very high-end feature. The low price confuses people, and they end up comparing it to similarly priced keyboards rather than similarly capable keyboards. We certainly didn't help matters by implying that it is a lesser model than the X6. The truth is that the X4 was originally supposed to be a less expensive model to follow the X6, but when it was in design, we managed to sneak in our new resistive multitouch technology, which really doesn't add much to the cost. We ended up mostly following the original positioning plan, releasing the X4 as a lower-cost gaming keyboard, even though it has this awesome feature that the X6 lacks. Of course, the X6 has features that the X4 lacks, and it is actually more expensive to manufacture. From that perspective, the relative pricing makes sense. But it's still unfortunate that people often miss what a ridiculously good value the X4 really is...

That said, I want to correct one bit of easily confusable marketing. While you can press "up to 26 keys", the reporting structure has limits on the numbers of certain classes of keys. It would be fairer to say that you can press 17 arbitrary keys (not counting the special keys). We have a page up that explains this in excruciating detail:

http://www.microsoft.com/appliedsciences/content/projects/SideWinderX4.aspx

The 26 is true, but it's not any 26 - it has to be certain types of keys. Of course, it's common in the industry to talk about the max number that can be reported rather than the max number of arbitrary keys that are guaranteed to be reported correctly. That number is 2 for the grand majority of keyboards, including most gaming boards. Many of those high-end mechanical gaming boards are limited to 6 over USB. By this measure, our 17 is awesome.

Finally, to answer an earlier question, the technique we used doesn't actually require a special driver. So the basic functionality works under other operating systems. However, things like macros and media keys require our driver to function correctly.

Hope this helps!

wow, thank you. This is very informative... there should be a sticky of sorts to advertise the X4 more... I had no idea this keyboard had such a high KRO feature and which is why I was considering $100+ mechanicals in the first place...
post #23 of 27
NOW everybody is polite.

The last time Paul posted was more fun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kip69;9405273 
And to clarify the clarification even more:
PaulHDietz, we asked you and told you that using the wrong terms for ghosting or N-key rollover would get you into trouble and here you are. If you persist in using the wrong terms willfully I will have to report you for trolling, as you are no better than that. I know your excuse (that "most" Americans call it ghosting) but I think this thread clearly shows that this is the wrong thing to do. I hope you understand us now.

About the board. It is, from my understanding, a high quality rubber dome board. It uses some interesting new techniques to get around the USB limitations and implement a great N-key rollover plan. Most other keyboards need to use PSII connections to do as well and are quite expensive. It does, however, suffer from a ghosting issue. If you press 2 keys you may get a 3rd that you did not press. As has been stated this is what ghosting means and it can be bad in games. This also makes the great N-key rollover mostly useless. You can think of is as the board randomly mashes itself in frustration for you smile.gif

Hope thats clear now.

And I am not a keyboard rep. 2cables and I hang out here, its a good read even if you dont want to spend so much on the best keyboard you will ever own: mechanical keyboard guide

Lulz - telling a Microsoft R&D researcher to RTFW.
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post #24 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by waar;15578042 
Not true, leopolds can do 16kro if I'm not mistaken



I always saw anti ghosting as unwanted letters being blocked. For instance you press g and gh pops up, something like that. I could be wrong tho.

I went and checked at elitekeyboards.com and it said that the Leopold can have 6 keys and 4 modifiers pressed at the same time when connected USB.

http://www.elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=leopold,tenkeyless&pid=fc200rcab
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post #25 of 27
Well, I think Elitekeyboards is wrong. Assuming everyone has been testing it correctly.

ab6cb7e01c033b6b8db3a700dd7a82d3.png
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post #26 of 27
hahaha. w/e man, just how things are now. What a joke.
post #27 of 27
Many keyboard marketing departments use "anti-ghosting" because it sounds good.

Just like Steelseries saying PS/2 is faster than USB.

Now THAT is a joke.
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