Originally Posted by Emmanuel
I can't lower myself to your level of ignorance, capitalist this capitalist that, blaming everything on it. You have no idea what you're talking about, without structure, without businesses there is no incentive to work and there's no market. In your prefect world what would people do? You're using the example of some destructive corporations to describe capitalism. Without corporations, you wouldn't have a computer because without the combined effort and investment of big companies, anything would be too expensive to make. I can't believe people still believe in those ideologies where everything is wonderful and not a single person wants to break the mold. Get out of your fantasy world where you can blame everything on capitalism. and while living in a capitalist country nothing prevents you from living your life with your ideologies on your property.
See if you actually read Marx, you would understand that Societies are based on the production of the surplus, and how that relationships alters all of relationships.
Also, you would understand that in Marxism, there are still BANKS, there is still capital. But let me ask something very simple, how does a capitalist get this money?
In MARXISM ALL THOSE THINGS EXIST YOU MENTION. The only thing missing is the CAPITALIST WHOSE ONLY POINT IN THE SYSTEM IS MORE GET MORE, MORE MORE MORE MORE.
Don't call me ignorant, when it's quite clear you have NO idea what you are talking about. You talk of Marxism like you understand it, it's clear you have no idea what you speak of.
Capitalism is exploitative. Why is it that people always blame EVERYTHING ELSE but this system? Oh we need more regulation, oh we need less, oh we can fix it this way, blah blah blah. You know what NEVER CHANGES? THE SYSTEM
Capitalism delivered great and rapid human development, but it can not, and never will address social issues. And until the system is replaced it will just get worse.
Everytime there is an economic collapse in Capitalism(You know your Boom Bust Bubble) there is almost ALWAYS a threat of social revolution, a system like that will NEVER EVER survive.
Do you really think billions of people are going to accept this situation as it becomes more and more UNABLE to deliver on the promises it originally made?
I guess I am different, I have seen the utter devastation this system brings, and that great bounties. But after 2008, my view changed, there is somethign incredibly WRONG with it. So I decided to do something crazy, I READ MARX. I ACTUALYL SAT DOWN AND READ CAPITAL 1 2 AND 3, and while some of thsoe ideas are almost fanciful. I saw many things in there that make TOTAL SENSE, and will eventualyl come to pass.
Co-operative businesses where the workers have a say in the way a business is run is the only answer. How many problems would have been avoided had this been the case? Let's lay out some examples, shall we?
Do you think that workers in the 1970s would have decided, "You know what guys, let's pay ourselves less, and UPPER UPPER MANAGEMENT WAY MORE"
That would not have happened.
Do you think that GM workers would have decided "Hey let's stop making cars that AMericans love, and can trust, and instead pay our management way more, and you know what else we will do? We'll ignore the quality of our products, and MAKE A BANK, we'll call it GMAC!"
No that would not have happened either. Do you want me to continue? See in Marxism competition still exists, of course it does. But decisions that effect how competition is decided COLLECTIVELY BY THE ONES WHO HAVE THE MOST TO LOSE IF THOSE DECISIONS FAIL UTTERLY. As it stands now, we have a "communistic" distribution of the surplus companies make, but it's not made by the ones who produce the surplus, oh no, it's made by a BOARD OF DIRECTORS.
It's obvious you have never read Marx. Why don't you at least look into, and understand it, before calling me ignorant, and then proceeding to prove to anyway who understands Marxism what a total ignoramus you end up looking like when you say those things you did.
Capitalism looks at the individual, how does that work out? It's a complete disaster, and eventually humanity will realize. "Hey wait a minute.... Why are these select few(the capitalists) making decisions that effect every single aspect of my life, and I literally have no say in it"
I question how America will ever be able to recover from this mess, inequality is worse, real wages haven't kept up with worker productivity. Which is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY up thanks to the Computer, and other tech advances.
But think of it this way. Americans value their worth on how much they consume, TVs, phones, computers, etc. Well We haven't seen an increase in wages for 40 years. That is longer than probably any of us here have been alive. What does that mean? HOW THE HELL CAN WE CONTINUE TO BUY ANYTHING if we are getting paid less? Oh we had Credit, but what happened there? We borrowed WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more to consume thigns than we ever had any hope of paying it back. The average WORKER IN AMERICA IS 120% in DEBT! No bank is going to loan to America anymore. That resource has been tapped.
How did America survive as a whole during this crisis? WE BORROWED from other GOVERNMENTS.
What does all this mean? Well it means AMerica is going to get a massive wake up call, that you know what? The America Dream was just a temporary thing.
What will happen when that happens? What happens when IMF says "hey America, you need to raise taxes, and cut social spending?