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post #191 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaxel View Post
This is just spin, right? Because if you are suggesting that cars getting 25 mpg produce more CO2 than cars getting 35 mpg you are either a troll or ignorant.
He's not a troll nor an ignorant.

If you burn in an engine (not a fireplace) 2 gallons of gas per hour at a 50% efficiency rate (energy out per gas in), you're producing less CO2 than an engine that eats 1.5 gallons at a80% efficiency. Even if you eat more fuel.

Efficiency=/=ecology in terms of CO2 emissions. What you reduce is pollutant agents emission, and carbon monoxide emissions.


Basic thermochemistry.


Why do I say not a fireplace? Because a fireplace continuously burns till there's no fuel left. An engine makes a slightly different combustion, which is nowhere near perfect.


Then, after fuel burning efficiency you need to count with the engine efficiency, which is what manufacturers use to reduce gas emissions. Once you've maximized the energy you can get out of the combustion process, you start optimising the engine itself to use up the most out of that thermal energy you've just gotten from the explosion. If you maximise engine efficiency you can cut on gas consumption, effectively reducing gas emissions.


Old, atmospheric, carburetor-fed petrol engines are MUCH less efficient than a modern bi-turbo fuel injection engine. Aside from the structural improvements, because the burning process in a modern injection is MUCH more efficient (gas and air amounts are incredibly optimised), thus takes less fuel to achieve the same energy outage. The difference is so big, it makes up for increased CO2 emissions due to fuel burning more efficiently. Not to mention pollutant agents are reduced to a minimum.
   
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post #192 of 225
Go live somewhere else if you don't like a civilized country like the United States. People come before trees.
    
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post #193 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willanhanyard View Post
Go live somewhere else if you don't like a civilized country like the United States. People come before trees.
Don't forget, no trees = no people. So if you think people always come first, think of all the organisms that keep people alive.
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post #194 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cesaro Summability View Post
I don't really care if Lenin was hypocritical, no one is going to deny the man was crazy. But he had valid insights into this system of capitalism, the fact that those insights are still valid is disturbing, or at least should be to all of us.

Freedom can never exist in Capitalism.

Freedom can only happen when we, the ones who produce all this crap people buy has a say in it's appropriation. WE HAVE NONE.

Capitalists are quite literally leeches. The system will never last, it's inherently inconsistent, utterly chaotic, and complete anathema to equality.

If talking about Capitalism is political than this site is crazy. Capitalism inst not a political topic, it's a topic that impacts every single part of our life. To not talk about it's failings is gross, and counter productive.



The dismantling of Capitalism. Think about it. It's time to go.

Mondragon is a great example of what the western world should be moving towards. Although even there I think the disparity between management and worker is too great.

But at least the CAPITALIST is gone. Which has one goal, and one goal only. TO GET MORE.

I love this kind of stuff. How much of that have you ACTUALLY researched that you didnt read in leftist progressive propaganda? So everyone having an EQUAL chance to rise up from nothing is actually the UNFAIR system? You would prefer a massive system of wealth redistribution so those who contribute NOTHING and will continue to be lazy will receive EVERYTHING from those who ACTUALLY work for it?

You cant possibly believe that's the fair method, can you? Unless of course, you are the recipient class. You would prefer capitalism is outlawed and replaced with a man-made system of redistribution in which a massive superstate and a chosen few within a bureaucracy decide who receives what. You complain about the "top 1%" now, you just wait until a system like that comes along. Be careful what you wish for, once government grows, it consumes all in its path and receives whatever it demands, while never ceasing to grow. This is the farcical pipe dream of the occupy wall street protesters- who are reduced to crapping on police cars, because, well, Damn the man!

It is the capitalists and the "big banks" that made this country what it is. They provide something called VENTURE CAPITAL (I'm guessing you don't know what it is, look it up.) These "venture capitalists" made companies like microsoft and apple possible (I'm guessing you're feverishly typing your response to my post on your ipad or iphone 4s as we speak). Without people willing to invest and yes, make some money off it, we would be no where. Just remember, the government DOES NOT PRODUCE ANY PRODUCTS, it just consumes.

I encourage you to rethink your outlook on life, freedom, and what liberty truly is.
post #195 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willanhanyard View Post
Go live somewhere else if you don't like a civilized country like the United States. People come before trees.
I plan on it
Getting my forest wife..have a couple forest children and living in a fern gully with my forest family

You can join to, although you have to be able to help brew beer (not just brewing but also tending to some land for the wheat and hops, the essentials for beer (cant just ship it from ups lol)
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post #196 of 225
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarmageddon88 View Post

I love this kind of stuff. How much of that have you ACTUALLY researched that you didnt read in leftist progressive propaganda? So everyone having an EQUAL chance to rise up from nothing is actually the UNFAIR system? You would prefer a massive system of wealth redistribution so those who contribute NOTHING and will continue to be lazy will receive EVERYTHING from those who ACTUALLY work for it?
We don't all have an equal chance and the idea we can all rise up from something to nothing is a lottery dream that is sold to the people to make them believe in the system. There is a glass ceiling for most o us, no matter how hard we work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarmageddon88 View Post
It is the capitalists and the "big banks" that made this country what it is. They provide something called VENTURE CAPITAL (I'm guessing you don't know what it is, look it up.) These "venture capitalists" made companies like microsoft and apple possible (I'm guessing you're feverishly typing your response to my post on your ipad or iphone 4s as we speak). Without people willing to invest and yes, make some money off it, we would be no where. Just remember, the government DOES NOT PRODUCE ANY PRODUCTS, it just consumes.

I encourage you to rethink your outlook on life, freedom, and what liberty truly is.
You couldn't be more wrong. It was the regular men and women of this country that made it what it was. you should notice a trend, the smaller the percentage of GDP and employment that privately owned companies contribute to this nation, the greater the disparity.
    
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post #197 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post
He's not a troll nor an ignorant.

If you burn in an engine (not a fireplace) 2 gallons of gas per hour at a 50% efficiency rate (energy out per gas in), you're producing less CO2 than an engine that eats 1.5 gallons at a80% efficiency. Even if you eat more fuel.

Efficiency=/=ecology in terms of CO2 emissions. What you reduce is pollutant agents emission, and carbon monoxide emissions.


Basic thermochemistry.


Why do I say not a fireplace? Because a fireplace continuously burns till there's no fuel left. An engine makes a slightly different combustion, which is nowhere near perfect.


Then, after fuel burning efficiency you need to count with the engine efficiency, which is what manufacturers use to reduce gas emissions. Once you've maximized the energy you can get out of the combustion process, you start optimising the engine itself to use up the most out of that thermal energy you've just gotten from the explosion. If you maximise engine efficiency you can cut on gas consumption, effectively reducing gas emissions.


Old, atmospheric, carburetor-fed petrol engines are MUCH less efficient than a modern bi-turbo fuel injection engine. Aside from the structural improvements, because the burning process in a modern injection is MUCH more efficient (gas and air amounts are incredibly optimised), thus takes less fuel to achieve the same energy outage. The difference is so big, it makes up for increased CO2 emissions due to fuel burning more efficiently. Not to mention pollutant agents are reduced to a minimum.
So a less modern car getting 35 mpg outputs more CO2 per mile driven than a modern engine getting 25 mpg?

I think we may be talking past each other. I am talking about the fuel efficiency of a vehicle, not efficient engines. Fuel efficiency of a vehicle takes far more into account than how efficiently an engine burns fuel. Someone said Chinese cars are worse than American cars, when the fact is they get 50% more distance traveled for the volume of fuel they burn.

In any case, it doesn't mitigate the amount of CO2 emissions by the US and China.
Edited by kaxel - 11/5/11 at 4:23pm
post #198 of 225
I gotta tell ya...Everytime I drive out of the mountains into Denver and se this big brown cloud hanging over the city, I get pissed off.
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post #199 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuNkDrSpOt View Post
You couldn't be more wrong. It was the regular men and women of this country that made it what it was. you should notice a trend, the smaller the percentage of GDP and employment that privately owned companies contribute to this nation, the greater the disparity.
Exactly! The less jobs that private companies have to contribute, the poorer we are! Maybe you came around after all! Or you cant form a coherent argument....that could be it too.

Lets see...what else has the government continually interfered with...? Hmmm...our currency! Oh wait, is it the conservative republicans' fault that inflation has skyrocketed due to the devaluation of our currency and printing fake phony fraud money? You ever think that has a hand in this too? But no, the government is all knowing and the right-wing is just standing in the way. It must also be their fault too, that our currency has plummeted and housing has collapsed, along with pretty much all food/agriculture prices.

If we could just switch to state-owned farms, then the government could ration it out to those who need it most! What a wonderful world.

You see, its not capitalism that got us where we are. It is the constant government interference in our lives. If only you had a taste of true liberty, you would see the error in your ways. I hope one day you can see it for yourself.

Because my friend, if you decide to one day show up at my door expecting to "take back whats yours" from my dirt-stained hard working hands. It will be a bad day for you, and the lot of you. Before you come back at me with the usual talking points of "capitalism....bush....obama is great...capitalism...new deal...etc etc" think hard of your answer, and offer solid proof, that is, if you can.
post #200 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarmageddon88 View Post

I love this kind of stuff. How much of that have you ACTUALLY researched that you didnt read in leftist progressive propaganda? So everyone having an EQUAL chance to rise up from nothing is actually the UNFAIR system? You would prefer a massive system of wealth redistribution so those who contribute NOTHING and will continue to be lazy will receive EVERYTHING from those who ACTUALLY work for it?

You cant possibly believe that's the fair method, can you? Unless of course, you are the recipient class. You would prefer capitalism is outlawed and replaced with a man-made system of redistribution in which a massive superstate and a chosen few within a bureaucracy decide who receives what. You complain about the "top 1%" now, you just wait until a system like that comes along. Be careful what you wish for, once government grows, it consumes all in its path and receives whatever it demands, while never ceasing to grow. This is the farcical pipe dream of the occupy wall street protesters- who are reduced to crapping on police cars, because, well, Damn the man!

It is the capitalists and the "big banks" that made this country what it is. They provide something called VENTURE CAPITAL (I'm guessing you don't know what it is, look it up.) These "venture capitalists" made companies like microsoft and apple possible (I'm guessing you're feverishly typing your response to my post on your ipad or iphone 4s as we speak). Without people willing to invest and yes, make some money off it, we would be no where. Just remember, the government DOES NOT PRODUCE ANY PRODUCTS, it just consumes.

I encourage you to rethink your outlook on life, freedom, and what liberty truly is.
politics? NOPE, this is SCIENCE.

also, after reading that i don't think you know the history behind Microsoft or Apple.

p.s. capitalism left unchecked does produce problems. a corporation does not have a conscious, despite being viewed as a person by law.

think of it like this, if there were no laws at all; make no mistake, there are people who would go on killing and robbing sprees because they wouldn't fear repercussions.

regulations exist to keep corporations honest (or as close to honest as they can get away with). The issue most people have with the system now is that what this country was founded on "By the people, for the people." no longer applies. Special interests have taken over DC; & while it's nothing new, it's gotten consistently worse.

p.p.s. i had a business professor at stanford who liked to refer to venture capitalists as "vulture capitalists". always made me crack a smile lol. & this was a guy who owned several large companies & dealt with it. grateful & appreciative are not the words he would use to describe them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarmageddon88 View Post
Exactly! The less jobs that private companies have to contribute, the poorer we are! Maybe you came around after all! Or you cant form a coherent argument....that could be it too.

Lets see...what else has the government continually interfered with...? Hmmm...our currency! Oh wait, is it the conservative republicans' fault that inflation has skyrocketed due to the devaluation of our currency and printing fake phony fraud money? You ever think that has a hand in this too? But no, the government is all knowing and the right-wing is just standing in the way. It must also be their fault too, that our currency has plummeted and housing has collapsed, along with pretty much all food/agriculture prices.

If we could just switch to state-owned farms, then the government could ration it out to those who need it most! What a wonderful world.

You see, its not capitalism that got us where we are. It is the constant government interference in our lives. If only you had a taste of true liberty, you would see the error in your ways. I hope one day you can see it for yourself.

Because my friend, if you decide to one day show up at my door expecting to "take back whats yours" from my dirt-stained hard working hands. It will be a bad day for you, and the lot of you. Before you come back at me with the usual talking points of "capitalism....bush....obama is great...capitalism...new deal...etc etc" think hard of your answer, and offer solid proof, that is, if you can.
If you actually think the republicans aren't for big gov you haven't been paying attention. It's just a talking point; they never do anything except pretend to block some bills which they are really blocking because they interfere w/ one of their contributor's agendas. Not because they're some flag waving super-american enlightened profits. Don't get me wrong the democrats kowtow constantly too; but the suggestion that republicans are actually loyal to the public is laughable.

they're not against funding alternative energy because it's a waste of tax payers money. they're against it because it's against the financial interests of their contributors (oil & coal).

you want to talk about waste, how about the royalty relief act which gives public land away for pennies on the dollar to be drilled; then all the oil is sent overseas to be sold at a higher profit. that money is not coming back to the U.S. to create new jobs either; multinational companies do not have an allegiance or legal obligation.

Meanwhile the majority of gas prices are subsidized by the government because people are complaining about cost; creating more debt. But that is putting a band-aid on an open wound; oil & coal is finite. Eventually we will need an alternative source of energy.

The economy is incentive based. It is why our local & state governments pay for the police, fire dpt, schools, dot, etc.. Nobody is going to do that for free are they? Look what happens when it's deregulated; take for example when school loans were deregulated & privatized; potential students got screwed hard.

If nobody pays scientists to develop better alternate energy production they're going to do something else. & legacy pollution based industries are not going to, they're going to fight it with every fiber of their being until every ounce has been sold at maximum profit.

alternatives create competition which creates a price war which decrease profits. better for the consumer, worse for the oil & coal industry.

Why people believe that shifting the focus to renewable, clean, alternative energy is equivalent to socialism or paying more baffles me. It's very reactionary; and counter to their own best interests (assuming they aren't a member of some family oil oligarchy).

Think of it like NASA, there was a ton of return on that investment (though it was easier to sell because of the space race & people fearing russia would blow them up from space). That's the only difference, the sense of urgency.

Since global warming / climate change happens slowly (as perceived by our short human lives, compared to the life of the earth it's increased very quickly) many people are apathetic to it. Even reading this thread, on a technical forum there are people who are even still in denial that it's happening. Then there are other people who acknowledge it, but flat out don't care because they'll "be dead before it matters.". A very selfish pov imo.


Edited by pale_neon - 11/5/11 at 8:00pm
    
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