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[EuroGamer] PS3/360 "raw horsepower" nearly exhausted - Page 10

post #91 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post
They reached it a while ago, they've been using a lot of cheap tricks to gain quality back. One of the biggest has been image quality per texture. Overall both consoles seem quite washed out when you compare it to something the PC could be doing... I would say the PS3 has better textures but the Xbox does effects much smoother. Still, they both got maxed out a while ago?

As for the Tessellation, both consoles can do it however neither have the memory to do it that efficiently.
That's called optimization, not cheap tricks as you put it. The consoles were "maxed out" from day one, but optimization has allowed them to get 50-100% more performance from these boxes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen86 View Post
This is why you develop for the PC and not base your titles on consoles. If you want to move forward, you develop games on the PC...if you want to go backwards, you develop on the console. Consoles have always strove to offer what PC's have always offered. I mean hell, if people like holding a controller so much...they can just plug one into a PC...there's your console.
No... Quite the opposite. PCs hardware wasn't faster than consoles until dedicated video cards became the norm(Early 2000s), and honestly, the PC games of today only start to look better about 2-3 years into the generation.

If you want to get technically... It was consoles that shipped with a dedicated graphics processor when rendering went from CPU-bound to it's current state -- You can thank N64/PS1 since they were some of the first devices to ship with dedicated graphics chips. N64 was more powerful, but limited by it's cartridge medium.

Also, I find it funny that console games have been multi-core for at least 6 years now yet you guys swear that it's the consoles holding things up.

Developers like 4A Games(Metro 2033) testify that developing for consoles has allowed them to deliver a more optimized experience to PC gaming.

You guys don't even know what it means to port... If you're dissatisfied with the game, then blame the game, not the process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hzac View Post
Honestly. In my opinion all consoles need are AA and they are golden. Thats the only thing that annoys me about ps3. Its not smooth like it should be. Damn hardware bottlenecks. I wish the ps4 was 2012. This year pretty much ends it for the ps3, Uncharted 3, Battlefield 3. Dice and naughty dog both saying theyve pushed it to the brink without cutting anymore than they should. So. Just get releasing the next gen
Most, if not, all 360 games have at least 4X MLAA. That is what the 10MB of EDRAM is for and the sole reason it was implemented... 4xMLAA @ 720p... This was the target image quality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghilly View Post
lol so much passion and hate in this thread
warms my heart how each side will fight with what ever evidence they can to defend thier gaming machine.

Oh and CONSOLS are teh Phaillzzzzzz
"each side" there's pretty much just one side being ration and actually discussing consoles, not down playing them.

You certainly don't fall on this side with that last sentence

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkontra13 View Post
I though this was wrong, the component cables actually would not carry the 1080p signal. I saw this in my old xbox on my 50' lcd at home.
Both the Xbox and TV said it was outputting 1080p signal, but there is a CLEAR difference when you plug in HDMI, which truly did 1080p.
I think you need composite or VGA to output 80p on the old boxes
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post #92 of 96
I also thought component was limited to 720p/1080i....
post #93 of 96
So here's the question, will it make a difference if I connect up HDMI to my tv instead of composite?
    
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post #94 of 96
X360 games seems to have better textures than PS3 games (and it used to have better AA too), but PS3 games seems to have better lighting. I was impressed with Uncharted 3's lighting, but the cave and ground textures are noticeably low-res, and the game doesn't seems to have AA (even though I heard it's supposed to have MLAA), I noticed quite a lot of jaggies. But anyways, games on both platform are at an acceptable level now, companies like Crytek and Id just made engines specifically for this gen's console, so I'm sure the X360 and PS3 still have another year or two left.
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post #95 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by BizzareRide View Post
That's called optimization, not cheap tricks as you put it. The consoles were "maxed out" from day one, but optimization has allowed them to get 50-100% more performance from these boxes.



No... Quite the opposite. PCs hardware wasn't faster than consoles until dedicated video cards became the norm(Early 2000s), and honestly, the PC games of today only start to look better about 2-3 years into the generation.

If you want to get technically... It was consoles that shipped with a dedicated graphics processor when rendering went from CPU-bound to it's current state -- You can thank N64/PS1 since they were some of the first devices to ship with dedicated graphics chips. N64 was more powerful, but limited by it's cartridge medium.

Also, I find it funny that console games have been multi-core for at least 6 years now yet you guys swear that it's the consoles holding things up.

Developers like 4A Games(Metro 2033) testify that developing for consoles has allowed them to deliver a more optimized experience to PC gaming.

You guys don't even know what it means to port... If you're dissatisfied with the game, then blame the game, not the process.



Most, if not, all 360 games have at least 4X MLAA. That is what the 10MB of EDRAM is for and the sole reason it was implemented... 4xMLAA @ 720p... This was the target image quality.



"each side" there's pretty much just one side being ration and actually discussing consoles, not down playing them.

You certainly don't fall on this side with that last sentence



I think you need composite or VGA to output 80p on the old boxes
1) I don't consider it optimization when your stripping pictures of their color so you can keep your FPS. I think it makes for a shoddy game that looks bad. It's why I find very few console games to be awe inspiring.

Bold1) Your wrong, Q1 was shipped and sold at the same time the N64/PSX were shipped and sold. The ID Quake engine was one of the first engines to really utilize the GPU. Not to mention we had been having dedicated graphics before that. A lot of games came out right about then that looked amazing on the PC compared to the console. You fast forward 2 years and you get Unreal, another year and you get Q2. Neither of those were ported right away as they had to "optimize" the consoles. I wonder why that is? We should really be thanking those game series on the PC for pushing the bar on to what we have today.

http://www.gamespot.com/n64/action/quake2/review.html

To put it bluntly the first consoles were the ports, and they were chopped down to keep things working. Instead today you see the consoles getting the work and the PC chopped down, it's completely backwards.

[edit:added stuff] Both the N64 and PSX had a single chip solution. The PSX was MIPS, the N64 was the R4300 (modified). Neither had "dedicated" chips for graphics, so not only are you wrong that the pioneering games for graphics were on the N64 and PSX but your wrong again as they had no dedicated graphics. Where do you get this info!?

2) The 10MB EDRAM wasn't made for MLAA, the first games didn't even get MLAA. Your thinking of MSAA, MLAA wasn't out and was originally PS3 only.

3) To be fair, consoles don't have threading like the PC has. They have to schedule everything and make the games explicit. Nothing compared to the complexity of the CPU multi-threading. You also don't have multiple programs or applications running on different threads, you work on a single game and that's it. There is thread management in a PC that a console just couldn't do, period.

4)There is no 80p, they did composite resolutions at well under 600x400. They couldn't do anything higher than that, I don't even think 80p is even possible.... It always goes by the end of the resolution.

1920×1080
1280×720
480 has two, it's unique...

The P/I stands for Progressive or Interlaced, you might get 224p or some bs on the old gen consoles. I doubt it though, that wasn't really a phrase we used to measure resolution back then. Nobody refers anything below 480 by abbreviating it that way, nobody I know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkontra13 View Post
I though this was wrong, the component cables actually would not carry the 1080p signal. I saw this in my old xbox on my 50' lcd at home.
Both the Xbox and TV said it was outputting 1080p signal, but there is a CLEAR difference when you plug in HDMI, which truly did 1080p.
It's not that 1080p can't be played it's because most TVs don't accept it in composite.

[I know it's wiki]
Code:
Component video is capable of carrying signals such as 480i, 480p, 576i, 576p, 720p, 1080i and 
even 1080p (although Blu-Ray movies cannot be played at 1080p using component cables; the 
display would either switch to 1080i or 720p). Many new high definition TVs support the use of 
component video up to their native resolution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_video

If you do extensive research you'll find that it's true though, I did it a long time ago to see if you could get 1080p from composite. We found my friends TV could do 1080p but only 1080i from composite, a limitation that was set.
Edited by mushroomboy - 11/7/11 at 11:11am
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post #96 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by GameBoy View Post
SPE's are not cores is any shape or form.
Out of everything I wrote, thats the only thing you found interest in? lol Work on having a sense of humor because I was making fun of the people saying "I won't touch a console because my 1337 rig will eat it for breakfast." I've got a significant amount of knowledge on the Cell to know what an SPE is, its functions, its caveats, and its strengths.
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