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post #41 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by HAVO View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz;15626886 
Exactly, if we all ran Linux and compiled our applications from source then Bulldozer would be a lot more attractive, it can beat SB quite handily clock for clock when you compile with optimisations for it. Of course that's no excuse as that's not what really happens.

Yea.. AMD failed hard not to "prepare" the industry for bulldozer cpus; they just released the damn thing and live "as is" so the end user need to figure what/how to get the most out of it to software makers, os, etc..

fail amd.. fail


 

Why thank you for making me facepalm in real life, after OCN went down I missed it quite a bit.

 

Considering pretty much every new instruction set, architecture, etc has done the same, whether introduced by Cyrix, IBM, AMD or even Intel, how is this a fail for AMD? Like I've been saying quite a bit recently, nearly all entirely new CPUs are a fail, Nehalem is the exception, not the rule.

Hence why I believe Piledriver will be a lot better, whether it's just another Phenom II or a very fast competitor remains to be seen though.

    
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post #42 of 50
i havent read all the thread but i wold like to now if you can play bf3 or skyrim or mw3 on it
also is this the no off buldozer chips needed to equal a p4 chip
    
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post #43 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post




Why thank you for making me facepalm in real life, after OCN went down I missed it quite a bit.

Considering pretty much every new instruction set, architecture, etc has done the same, whether introduced by Cyrix, IBM, AMD or even Intel, how is this a fail for AMD? Like I've been saying quite a bit recently, nearly all entirely new CPUs are a fail, Nehalem is the exception, not the rule.
Hence why I believe Piledriver will be a lot better, whether it's just another Phenom II or a very fast competitor remains to be seen though.

I would say it's only a failure of their marketing team--I think that can't be denied. But not of AMD. I think they very well knew and planned out exactly what could be done with the chip.

But what also can't be denied is that the BD architecture is not a floppy impotent architecture, like many loudmouthed people have regurgitated over and over. It's just not properly utilized for the current desktop computers, which is well-known (or rather, it should be, but the ardent anti-BD'ers can't seem to wrap their brains around).
    
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post #44 of 50
EDIT--Brand new OCN, same double-post issues... :/
    
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post #45 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post

I would say it's only a failure of their marketing team--I think that can't be denied. But not of AMD. I think they very well knew and planned out exactly what could be done with the chip.
But what also can't be denied is that the BD architecture is not a floppy impotent architecture, like many loudmouthed people have regurgitated over and over. It's just not properly utilized for the current desktop computers, which is well-known (or rather, it should be, but the ardent anti-BD'ers can't seem to wrap their brains around).

The problem is AMD has had a rep of introducing something new before it's really ready. How long did it take for AMD64 to catch on, despite how much people said it would fail and we didn't need it yet for a long time? Intel came in, gave us HT, before we could even utilize multiple threads. Hell, we've been using dual thread solutions for programs up until about the time Crysis was released. Even still, most programs and games use 2 and only now are the later ones using 4+. This is going to take a while for developers to figure out how to use, it's really a natural problem of hardware. Something gets released, there's no support or instructions that fully use it yet because it's too new. I give it a couple years, servers will adopt the platform well. After that, the desktop market will get a lot of the server code (improved scheduling, better handling of threads, even the use of more threads). As this is an ongoing trend, AMD is really thinking much farther ahead. Our browsers, they use a thread per tab now. Soon it won't be about single thread performance, it'll be about absurd thread counts.
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post #46 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

The problem is AMD has had a rep of introducing something new before it's really ready. How long did it take for AMD64 to catch on, despite how much people said it would fail and we didn't need it yet for a long time? Intel came in, gave us HT, before we could even utilize multiple threads. Hell, we've been using dual thread solutions for programs up until about the time Crysis was released. Even still, most programs and games use 2 and only now are the later ones using 4+. This is going to take a while for developers to figure out how to use, it's really a natural problem of hardware. Something gets released, there's no support or instructions that fully use it yet because it's too new. I give it a couple years, servers will adopt the platform well. After that, the desktop market will get a lot of the server code (improved scheduling, better handling of threads, even the use of more threads). As this is an ongoing trend, AMD is really thinking much farther ahead. Our browsers, they use a thread per tab now. Soon it won't be about single thread performance, it'll be about absurd thread counts.

Yep, 100% agreed.

But I would still say that by far, this is a bad marketing blunder first.
    
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post #47 of 50
I think this article says that bulldozer is wayy to advanced to be of any use to us mere pc users?
    
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post #48 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orn View Post

I think this article says that bulldozer is wayy to advanced to be of any use to us mere pc users?

Not necessarily, it is more along the lines of:
"The chip has incredible potential and power iff developers actually made use of it's capabilities..." which they intend to do.
We can (and I know I will) keep making fun of BD for the terrible start but it is anything but a bad chip. The idea is rather ingenious if you ask me. Yeah, AMD has been bashed multiple times for their "moar cores" approach but many fail to realize that our applications are slowly getting more and more heavily-threaded and multitasking is becoming heavier as well.

The only problem with BD imho is maturity. Just like DX11 tessellation/ optimizations over the previous API is useless without developer implementation, the same goes for BD. I dare say (with caution) that a considerable number of software developers are still trying to figure out how to harness the potential of BD, and once that happens (assuming it happens soon), SB could easily get mauled....



On topic: I want this machine... sooo bbaadd....
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post #49 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post

I would say it's only a failure of their marketing team--I think that can't be denied. But not of AMD. I think they very well knew and planned out exactly what could be done with the chip.
But what also can't be denied is that the BD architecture is not a floppy impotent architecture, like many loudmouthed people have regurgitated over and over. It's just not properly utilized for the current desktop computers, which is well-known (or rather, it should be, but the ardent anti-BD'ers can't seem to wrap their brains around).

The problem is AMD has had a rep of introducing something new before it's really ready. How long did it take for AMD64 to catch on, despite how much people said it would fail and we didn't need it yet for a long time? Intel came in, gave us HT, before we could even utilize multiple threads. Hell, we've been using dual thread solutions for programs up until about the time Crysis was released. Even still, most programs and games use 2 and only now are the later ones using 4+. This is going to take a while for developers to figure out how to use, it's really a natural problem of hardware. Something gets released, there's no support or instructions that fully use it yet because it's too new. I give it a couple years, servers will adopt the platform well. After that, the desktop market will get a lot of the server code (improved scheduling, better handling of threads, even the use of more threads). As this is an ongoing trend, AMD is really thinking much farther ahead. Our browsers, they use a thread per tab now. Soon it won't be about single thread performance, it'll be about absurd thread counts.



Brand is irrelevant, BD has good single thread performance if the new instructions are used, as I've been (And I think he was) saying, its just too new for it to be really fully used.

But marketing really shouldn't have straight out lied, that should be an easy enough lesson...It never has worked, once.

 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orn View Post

I think this article says that bulldozer is wayy to advanced to be of any use to us mere pc users?


 

 

No, just in a situation that lets them sit a lot nearer the bleeding edge of instruction sets and optimisation.

    
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post #50 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

Lately it seems like I'm living in Bizzaro world, people choosing AMD to do heavy math and choosing Intel to play games on. My how things have changed smile.gif


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