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[LR] Bulldozer FX 4100 Review - Page 4

post #31 of 103
That is pretty bad.
post #32 of 103
Quote:
The AMD AM3+ platform that we used to test the AMD Phenom and FX processors were run on the ASUS Crosshair V Formula motherboard with BIOS 9901 that came out on 9/26/2011.
September 26th, eh? (before release)
I'm curious as to whether this could possibly have bugged up the results.

Whatever the case, I don't see how the FX-4100 loses at all in this test, and I find that many of the immediate "this is a failure" claims in this thread are quite baseless.

It is more power efficient. It beats out the A8 3850 in power consumption level at load (note that the A8, as with the other setups, is paired with a 6950) and has an even more significant edge over the 980 in power consumption level at load. The 980 and the 4100 can exhibit similar performance levels when overclocked to their max levels (the 980 is clocked not far from the limit and can reach 4-4.3GHz, but the 4100 can reach upwards of 4.6-5GHz depending on how much voltage you push through). This review OCed the 4100 to 4.6Ghz at stock voltage and on the stock cooler (i.e. not much power consumption increase), whereas you would have to up the volts if you wanted to push that 980 higher than 4Ghz, as with most Phenom II x4 chips regardless. Think of how much further you could push with a 120MM tower cooler.

Overclocked performance is definitely going to depend on the task; it appears only Cinebench is tested at the higher 4.6GHz clock. Cinebench is obviously not going to have an edge due to how the architecture is designed when both cores in a module are being used). If multicore performance scaling were totally linear on this architecture, the FX-4100 would be receiving ~3.75 points at the stock 3.6GHz with all cores (calculated from per core value); this is not the case, and it receives 2.97, losing out to even the AMD A6. But in the single threaded test, it beats out the A8. And although it falls short of the 980, this is a shortcoming that could easily be overcome with extra clock speed, while maintaining lower power consumption.

With the 960T and the 830/925 competing in the same market with similar (or lower) prices I'd say the choice is particularly tough, and there are definitely some "better buys" that will throw this FX processor off course. Whatever the case, the FX 4100 is priced well and is an absolutely great buy for $110 shipped (current Amazon pricing).
Edited by xd_1771 - 11/10/11 at 7:46pm
post #33 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by t00sl0w View Post

for those of you that were active in the OC scene back in the day, which was more of a disaster...BD or netburst?

That depends on one's perspective.

For a lot of people, Bulldozer is a great improvement over Phenom II.

For a lot of other people, Bulldozer is worse than Phenom II.

For some people, Bulldozer has a better price/performance ratio than Sandy Bridge.

For a lot of people, Bulldozer has a worse price/performance ratio than Sandy Bridge.

The first Pentium 4s undoubtedly had very little to no performance advantage over the last Pentium IIIs, but heat and power consumption were improved a bit as was the situation with RAM (DDR SDRAM). While it did surpass its predecessor after a little while, compared to the Athlon/Athlon 64/Athlon X2 NetBurst was a slow, overpriced, hot piece of junk that had no future.

I see the situation as similar, though I think Bulldozer is better. There are uses in which Bulldozer absolutely crushes all of the competition. AFAIK the Pentium 4 did not enjoy any clear victories over the Athlon 64. Bulldozer also seems to have a lot of potential for future enhancements and, lol, MOAR CORES AND GIGGLEHURTZ! P4 hit a clock speed wall the architecture simply could not get around; similar to how the rumored to have been developed Phenom X8 chips scaled terribly, didn't clock high enough, etc. AMD seems pretty confident Piledriver will be fine with 20 cores.

What's similar though is the poor IPC and clock speeds eventually making up for it somewhat. Bulldozer at 5GHz is 15% faster than Phenom II at 4GHz. Another thing that's somewhat similar is the good performance with properly optimized code, though this is much more true with Bulldozer than it was with P4. And there's the high power consumption.
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post #34 of 103
been wondering why they didn't offer to do a review on the lower end models.

thanks for this.
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post #35 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by xd_1771 View Post

September 26th, eh? (before release)
I'm curious as to whether this could possibly have bugged up the results.
Whatever the case, I don't see how the FX-4100 loses at all in this test, and I find that many of the immediate "this is a failure" claims in this thread are quite baseless.
It is more power efficient. It beats out the A8 3850 in power consumption level at load (note that the A8, as with the other setups, is paired with a 6950) and has an even more significant edge over the 980 in power consumption level at load. The 980 and the 4100 can exhibit similar performance levels when overclocked to their max levels (the 980 is clocked not far from the limit and can reach 4-4.3GHz, but the 4100 can reach upwards of 4.6-5GHz depending on how much voltage you push through). This review OCed the 4100 to 4.6Ghz at stock voltage and on the stock cooler (i.e. not much power consumption increase), whereas you would have to up the volts if you wanted to push that 980 higher than 4Ghz, as with most Phenom II x4 chips regardless. Think of how much further you could push with a 120MM tower cooler.
Overclocked performance is definitely going to depend on the task; it appears only Cinebench is tested at the higher 4.6GHz clock. Cinebench is obviously not going to have an edge due to how the architecture is designed when both cores in a module are being used). If multicore performance scaling were totally linear on this architecture, the FX-4100 would be receiving ~3.75 points at the stock 3.6GHz with all cores (calculated from per core value); this is not the case, and it receives 2.97, losing out to even the AMD A6. But in the single threaded test, it beats out the A8. And although it falls short of the 980, this is a shortcoming that could easily be overcome with extra clock speed, while maintaining lower power consumption.
With the 960T and the 830/925 competing in the same market with similar (or lower) prices I'd say the choice is particularly tough, and there are definitely some "better buys" that will throw this FX processor off course. Whatever the case, the FX 4100 is priced well and is an absolutely great buy for $110 shipped (current Amazon pricing).

$20 More for an i3-2120, so no, it is not a great buy.
post #36 of 103
I'm not so sure about that. 960t offers 4 legitimate cores and OCing the northbridge (something you are always have said) offer a very nice performance boost. I don't even think FX-4100 overclocking scales very well.

After seeing the results of the Thuban overclocking imc, I'm pretty convinced that the zosma and thuban models are actually i7 and i5 (1st generation) competitive. The FX-4100 has less devoted cores and its only advantage is power consumption. Just by looking at the sales of GPU products, people around here just don't care. Including me, so long as it runs cool.
Nvidia's performance per watt is atrocious compared the the AMD competition. Comparable to FX vs. SB. GTX 400's vs. HD 5000's was bad too. But, performance is so much more important. I bought my 570 for its POTENTIAL performance. That's how little the FX's advantage matters to the people you're arguing with. I will buy something that performs a little better at the cost of a huge (% is huge, not electric bill cost) efficiency deficit, and then make its efficiency worse for more performance.
 
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post #37 of 103
seriously, how can it be that bad?
Quote:
When it comes to performance we were shocked to see the AMD A8-3850 'Llano' processor and the Socket FM1 platform performing better than the AMD FX-4100 'Bulldozer' processor and the Socket AM3+ platform.

i at first thought they were bluffing and checked the handbrake section since handbrake seemed to do well on the other BD models, but alas...

700

this is pathetic. i like AMD, but this is pathetic
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post #38 of 103
i'm actually with XD on this, and am not sure what you guys are expecting from a ~$100 quad (or if you prefer, "quad") and why you're railing against this chip.

as far as i can tell, the FX-4 is priced to: run your OS, run your everyday progs, and allow for good frames in games. it looks like it succeeds on all those fronts, for a very nice price.

could it be better? sure, and i hope Piledriver will continue to improve on it, but it looks to me to be a reasonable chip for what should be asked of it.

if you're doing a lot of rendering or video encoding, this probably isn't the chip for you. if you want to surf the web, word process, and game, then this seems like a good chip for you and it's nice and cheap.
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post #39 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicodemus View Post

i'm actually with XD on this, and am not sure what you guys are expecting from a ~$100 quad (or if you prefer, "quad") and why you're railing against this chip.
as far as i can tell, the FX-4 is priced to: run your OS, run your everyday progs, and allow for good frames in games. it looks like it succeeds on all those fronts, for a very nice price.
could it be better? sure, and i hope Piledriver will continue to improve on it, but it looks to me to be a reasonable chip for what should be asked of it.
if you're doing a lot of rendering or video encoding, this probably isn't the chip for you. if you want to surf the web, word process, and game, then this seems like a good chip for you and it's nice and cheap.

but any cheaper X4 can do that just as well if not better and you don't have to buy a more expensive AM3+ motherboard. I originally thought that the FX4100 and the FX8120 were decent CPUs to get...but I am really starting to have second thoughts about the FX4100. It might be in worse shape than the FX6100 is.
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post #40 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

but any cheaper X4 can do that just as well if not better and you don't have to buy a more expensive AM3+ motherboard. I originally thought that the FX4100 and the FX8120 were decent CPUs to get...but I am really starting to have second thoughts about the FX4100...it might be in worse shape than the FX6100 is.

sure, that's fair. if one can find a cheaper Phenom II x4 and wants to go with that, or even pay a little extra for whatever performance benefit may be had by the PIIx4, that's also fine.

i guess it just seems to me that the FX-4 seems more viable an option than people may want to give it credit for.

i don't have one, though, so i can't offer up any personal opinions. i hope for PD to be out by the time i'm looking to upgrade again.
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