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[XBit] First Details About Intel Haswell Emerge: 2-4 Cores, New Graphics Core, DDR3, Low Power. - Page 5

post #41 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkillzKillz View Post

How do you get the ultimate value when the cost was like $800-$1000 upon release, IIRC.

I dunno about the release price for the Q6600, but I paid $200 new from Frys and my 8800GT at launch was $250 from EVGA.com. My 8800GT lasted me up until this summer when I upgraded to my GTX 580.

You might be thinking of the 8800GTX and a QX6600.
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post #42 of 43
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Originally Posted by Domino View Post

In context, no, more cores does not magically give you more performance - even considering 100% load. You also run into more issues, such as scheduling errors, poor threaded management, etc. Yes, more cores DOES, in the end scheme of things, does improve performance, but when you saturated your thread load with cores rather then single core performance, then we actually see a decrease in expected performance. Bulldozer is a prime example that more cores does not give you move performance but rather that thread management does and Intel's Xenon line-up really shows that thread management and a realistic core count is significantly better then simply adding more cores.
You also run into more issues on the developer side. More cores typically benefit sever rather then client loads. Even when we have, at once, 90+ threads going on for most users, adding more cores with a poor thread scheduler is not going to really help us. Bulldozer was ahead of its time. If applications begin to switch over to AMDs instruction sets is when we are going to see bulldozer shine...but so far, that isn't working. Intel is realistically pacing themselves, AMD isn't. If Intel decided to throw on 4 more cores, we'd have to sacrifice single threaded performance while adding more power consumption and wasted cores. By the time developers catch up, those extra cores would be outranked by 4 better cores later on.

More cores mean more power, period (again, this is assuming identical architecture/IPC.) The downsides you mentioned are due to software, not hardware.

... and hardware comes before software. Do you expect software to be at a standstill forever in terms of parallelism?

And how is adding more cores wasted power consumption? Increasing IPC is far more inefficient.
Edited by GameBoy - 11/13/11 at 2:13pm
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post #43 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post

This is a smart move. The theory that more cores makes the chip better for mainstream users is evidently wrong. 2-4 cores is great for now. Hyper-threading helps for the future. By the time that more cores are needed, the current hardware would be crap anyways. 8+ cores now is not going to help later. Look at Q6600 users... ha. What they could have saved could have funded their new dual core (heck, even a quad core) that would have walked over the Q6600.



Unless they actually use all 4 cores, a Q6600 is still quite a great chip today (Want proof? My E6700 runs BF3 and Skyrim perfectly fine on highest settings with a GTX 470) so in the end, they'd get better value.

 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obakemono View Post

Where is your proof? AMD knows this as well, just look at the Llano chips. Intel has nothing that can keep up with them. AMD came out with a different approach to the same problem with BD, but it seems the Intel campers want to make sure their beloved company always is on top and aid in the propaganda war against AMD at any cost.

To be fair the 8150 is about equal to the 2500k, and AMD's IGPs are excellent. But Intel is the better choice at this point in time for most people.

Now, if you're talking anything that supports the new BD instruction sets (FMA4, CVT16, XOP) -- then Intel is definitely a terribly stupid choice. The problem is that no real world programs besides self-compiled HPC stuff supports them


 

Most enthusiasts, actually.

 

For general users I'd get a E-350 or Llano/Trinity because they won't notice the difference between those and a octocore SB at 5Ghz, but they would notice the better GPU and lower price.

 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Karnage View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obakemono View Post

Where is your proof? AMD knows this as well, just look at the Llano chips. Intel has nothing that can keep up with them. AMD came out with a different approach to the same problem with BD, but it seems the Intel campers want to make sure their beloved company always is on top and aid in the propaganda war against AMD at any cost.

Your probably the only person on this forum who cares about Llano



Actually, anyone in touch with the average consumer would be stupid to not care about Llano. And quite a few people on this forum are.

 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by czin125 View Post

Wouldn't more cores also make it better for mutli-tasking ( not threading? )

Yes

For example, you could be running a game coded for up to 4 cores. Great, all you need is 4 cores. But what if you wanted to do something else as well? What if you're ripping a dvd or converting a movie you downloaded or whatever and want to keep playing your game at a similar frame rate? You'd definitely benefit from more cores in that situation.

Parallel computing already fixes that. We see very little performance drops due to such. Hyper-threading gives users a massive benefit when dealing with such cases.


 

It's much slower compared to real cores, when you do this kind of thing on a 2600k vs a Phenom II x6, the Phenom II usually ends up being a little faster than the 2600k simply because it has 2 more actual cores to feed.

 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Karnage View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obakemono View Post


It seems to me all you care about is Intel.

Why should i care about Amd? I have no interest in there horrible products.


 

Because for the great unwashed masses, AMDs "horrible products" are much better value than Intel. They won't notice the difference between an Atom and a Haswell, but the lower price and lower TDP in the case of Fusion (Without Atoms crappy GPU) are very noticeable.

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