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Why is the new OCN so taxing on CPU/RAM - Page 11

post #101 of 158
So can we get a word from Ted Gill, rebuffing SCollins comment about JavaScript? As I'm inclined to side with SCollins, that you can't build something as complicated as OCN is now entirely from JavaScript, and expect satisfactory performance. Most of the work should be server-side, with the client-side providing 'the finishing touches'. In the end of the day, the forum is just a DB, with a pretty web front end. I don't doubt the DB, just the web front end.

Sure, frills are nice, but underneath all the fluff is the forum DB that we know and love. I'm holding out for the mobile site which should provide a much more direct access to the data.

I don't suppose a "no-frills" option could be developed, allowing people almost text-like access to the forum? Like a Javascript-free option (ok, not totally free, but with the bare minimum needed to get to the DB and get the posts in and out of it)
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post #102 of 158
I also thank Dan for his post. I appreciate that there is a team working on this. Hopefully the issues get sorted out.

On the design side I love the new site once I figured out where stuff was.
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post #103 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by dangill View Post

Hey all - my name is Dan Gill; I'm the Co-founder and CEO over at Huddler. Our entire team has been watching the Overclock migration like hawks - it's the culmination of months of work from the OCN staff, the Migration Sherpa's and our team so I can assure you that we're paying attention. Having read this thread in its entirety as well as the similar multi-hundred post thread, I offered to chime-in with the hope that we can clarify Huddler's intentions on a few misunderstandings.

Hey, I don't have a problem with you making a buck. Really I don't. you run a business, I run a business. can't offer services without a revenue stream to fund them. No animosity on my part. My only primary beef is that I did not sign a new T.O.S. to reflect this nor was I informed or gave consent to have you use whatever data you may gather. That said, I hope you have a long and prosperous future as a business.

Quote:
As far as the primary theme of this thread - site speed, the first step will be out before the end of this week and will continue to improve with every release. My co-founder/CTO Ted is on board the thread as well and can certainly keep up if folks want to get technical around architectural decisions and what's being done to improve speed.

bluntly, you need to rethink your entire strategy, keep replacing JS, with more proven performance oriented code until you can't anymore, then use JS for extra features that are impossible/insanely difficult to do otherwise. This may involve some cost on your end as I am fairly certain you have over invested in a JS based platform. Its not a problem I personally can't cope with from a hardware standpoint, its one I refuse to deal with as a user. there are plenty of competing sites with lower resource useage and more performance that offer the same content delivery as OCN.

So do yourself a favor, buy Vbulletin.

Quote:
Where I may be able to help is clarifying our business model, and most specifically to start, the term "deep user profiling." To avoid any confusion, this statement is in reference to the existence of Rigbuilder and the "list" functionality we provide on the majority of Huddler communities, not marketing-speak for data mining and selling. For years on forums, users have demonstrated their cred by showcasing the gear that they have and are familiar with - on OCN this has been Rigs, on Howardforums they showed off their handsets and carriers, on home theater sites it's their HT equipment. The challenge is that this data is unstructured exactly as Chipp outlines in his post about tagging, free-text entry of this type of data leaves a lot to be desired.

I get it, integrating advertising with product and content delivery is profitable and lucrative, hey I don't begrudge you a thing. Just update the TOS and have everyone agree to it again, IF they choose to.
Quote:
Part of our vision with Huddler is to provide access to a structured taxonomy to help users create rigs and collections in a way that they can be related to one another and to the best content on the site. We realize that this isn't for everyone, so we've tried to provide substantial controls for users to ignore/remove the display of elements that are not of interest so as not to disrupt the core forum experience. These lists are all that is meant by "deep user profiling" - users can create deeper profiles about themselves and the gear they use. We've had folks hate this term in the past - seems like high time to retire it from use.
As far as our broader business, I'm happy to answer questions. The company was founded out of a deep respect for the incredible knowledge and passion within discussion forums and there are 51 people and growing (30 in product/engineering) that care very deeply about helping to build the best communities online. We appreciate the feedback and are responding quickly. Thanks all.


Hey whatever floats your boat.
post #104 of 158
It's almost funny to me how the only ones appreciating Dan's reply are the Migration Sherpa's and Moderators...

I tend to be more blunt than most, so take it with a grain of salt - but I don't care about your 'kind words', Dan. We, the users, are essentially your customer. If I tried sending an email full of kind words to a client trying to explain why the most recent system we shipped them is different, bulky, slower, and far less user friendly, they would no longer be my client. You fail.

I like results. Step one is for Huddler to provide a forum with even remotely equal performance and navigability as the former OC.net. We'll see what Thursday brings.
    
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post #105 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by chemicalfan View Post

So can we get a word from Ted Gill, rebuffing SCollins comment about JavaScript? As I'm inclined to side with SCollins, that you can't build something as complicated as OCN is now entirely from JavaScript, and expect satisfactory performance. Most of the work should be server-side, with the client-side providing 'the finishing touches'. In the end of the day, the forum is just a DB, with a pretty web front end. I don't doubt the DB, just the web front end.
Sure, frills are nice, but underneath all the fluff is the forum DB that we know and love. I'm holding out for the mobile site which should provide a much more direct access to the data.
I don't suppose a "no-frills" option could be developed, allowing people almost text-like access to the forum? Like a Javascript-free option (ok, not totally free, but with the bare minimum needed to get to the DB and get the posts in and out of it)

There is a 'lite' version of the site in the roadmap. This will 'cater' to slower hardware and people who want to remove many of the 'frills'. I am not fully sure, but I believe this will also be separate from the mobile site also in development so as to work well on desktop browsers at higher resolutions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by i_hax View Post

It's almost funny to me how the only ones appreciating Dan's reply are the Migration Sherpa's and Moderators...
I tend to be more blunt than most, so take it with a grain of salt - but I don't care about your 'kind words', Dan. We, the users, are essentially your customer. If I tried sending an email full of kind words to a client trying to explain why the most recent system we shipped them is different, bulky, slower, and far less user friendly, they would no longer be my client. You fail.
I like results. Step one is for Huddler to provide a forum with even remotely equal performance and navigability as the former OC.net. We'll see what Thursday brings.

While I understand your point, it is important to note that as moderators we use the site quite a bit more than most members. We also see and work much more with the forum backend and management directly. Perhaps there are more reasons than some conspiracy as to why we aren't all up in arms about the new site. wink.gif

As for your other concerns, I am not the person to address them. smile.gif
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post #106 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by IEATFISH View Post

There is a 'lite' version of the site in the roadmap. This will 'cater' to slower hardware and people who want to remove many of the 'frills'. I am not fully sure, but I believe this will also be separate from the mobile site also in development so as to work well on desktop browsers at higher resolutions.

This was said to arrive early next year... with a time frame like that, you might as well not mention it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IEATFISH View Post

While I understand your point, it is important to note that as moderators we use the site quite a bit more than most members. We also see and work much more with the forum backend and management directly. Perhaps there are more reasons than some conspiracy as to why we aren't all up in arms about the new site. wink.gif

This makes no sense. If there is some holy grail of forum design on the horizon, why is it being withheld from the masses? Regardless, from the last complaint thread and this one it's become blatantly obvious 95% of the moderators here are just mouthpieces that spout the same BS ad nauseum.
    
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post #107 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by i_hax View Post

This was said to arrive early next year... with a time frame like that, you might as well not mention it.
This makes no sense. If there is some holy grail of forum design on the horizon, why is it being withheld from the masses? Regardless, from the last complaint thread and this one it's become blatantly obvious 95% of the moderators here are just mouthpieces that spout the same BS ad nauseum.

I'm not sure where I said things were being withheld... I was only explaining that you have a single viewpoint on the site. Also remember that with titles about issues, the people who will enter the thread are generally people who have similar issues or people who have answers. Again, not discounting anyone's input but the sample group here is bound to lean towards those who are unhappy with the site. To use this thread and the other as your data set is misleading.
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post #108 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by chemicalfan View Post

So can we get a word from Ted Gill, rebuffing SCollins comment about JavaScript? As I'm inclined to side with SCollins, that you can't build something as complicated as OCN is now entirely from JavaScript, and expect satisfactory performance. Most of the work should be server-side, with the client-side providing 'the finishing touches'. In the end of the day, the forum is just a DB, with a pretty web front end. I don't doubt the DB, just the web front end.

Sure, frills are nice, but underneath all the fluff is the forum DB that we know and love. I'm holding out for the mobile site which should provide a much more direct access to the data.

I don't suppose a "no-frills" option could be developed, allowing people almost text-like access to the forum? Like a Javascript-free option (ok, not totally free, but with the bare minimum needed to get to the DB and get the posts in and out of it)

The business logic is most definitely PHP - the frontend uses many javascript calls to interface with that PHP. I'll see if we can't get some official followup for you.
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post #109 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by IEATFISH View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by i_hax View Post

This was said to arrive early next year... with a time frame like that, you might as well not mention it.
This makes no sense. If there is some holy grail of forum design on the horizon, why is it being withheld from the masses? Regardless, from the last complaint thread and this one it's become blatantly obvious 95% of the moderators here are just mouthpieces that spout the same BS ad nauseum.

I'm not sure where I said things were being withheld... I was only explaining that you have a single viewpoint on the site. Also remember that with titles about issues, the people who will enter the thread are generally people who have similar issues or people who have answers. Again, not discounting anyone's input but the sample group here is bound to lean towards those who are unhappy with the site. To use this thread and the other as your data set is misleading.

The whole of OCN is your data set; to have this many people disgruntled and sharing their opinions should be a worrying sign, not something to dismiss as statistically biased kookoo.gif

Some people here need to pull their heads from wherever they are uncomfortably placed, and start listening.
post #110 of 158
I dont' like it, I prefer the old layout waaaaay more. Why do we have to fix what ain't broke.
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