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post #111 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by omega17 View Post

The whole of OCN is your data set; to have this many people disgruntled and sharing their opinions should be a worrying sign, not something to dismiss as statistically biased kookoo.gif
Some people here need to pull their heads from wherever they are uncomfortably placed, and start listening.

http://www.styleforum.net/t/256118/what-have-you-done-to-my-beloved-forum

It's the same story elsewhere; I've given up even trying to discuss it, having instead resigned myself to the fact that this place has, by design, evolved from what was a great forum into a "unified platform that's better for users and more attractive to advertisers."
Edited by jlells01 - 11/16/11 at 12:43pm
post #112 of 158
I fear that most users will give up voicing their concerns, and either never visit the forums, or begrudgingly wade through it like treacle, only to find that no-one has posted any worthwhile content for weeks.
post #113 of 158
Hello everybody. I'm Ted, Huddler's CTO. Thanks for all the feedback so far, good and bad. We read it all and take it incredibly seriously.

I'm hoping I can shed some light on a few of your questions and answer any others that come up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chemicalfan View Post

So can we get a word from Ted Gill, rebuffing SCollins comment about JavaScript? As I'm inclined to side with SCollins, that you can't build something as complicated as OCN is now entirely from JavaScript, and expect satisfactory performance. Most of the work should be server-side, with the client-side providing 'the finishing touches'. In the end of the day, the forum is just a DB, with a pretty web front end. I don't doubt the DB, just the web front end.

Sure, frills are nice, but underneath all the fluff is the forum DB that we know and love. I'm holding out for the mobile site which should provide a much more direct access to the data.

I don't suppose a "no-frills" option could be developed, allowing people almost text-like access to the forum? Like a Javascript-free option (ok, not totally free, but with the bare minimum needed to get to the DB and get the posts in and out of it)

I think in some cases things are simply being misunderstood. The Huddler platform, from an architecture perspective, has a lot more in common with vBulletin than it is different. As Chipp and others have said, it is built on the LAMP stack and functions very similarly. The majority of the page is all still rendered server-side, just as is was before. User interactions with the page is where Javascript comes into play. Some good examples of this are the forum nav fly-out menu in the header, editor toolbars and the user menus (displayed when you hover on a username).

We agree that the Javascript could be more efficient and we're working on it. The next release (going out tomorrow) will be the first of many improvements on that end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riou View Post

In Firefox, when you scroll down with the mouse wheel on the main page, the sky blue highlight is rendered for each sub forum. In Chrome, it does not have the sky blue highlight during scrolling. It only highlights once the scrolling has stopped and you move the mouse over a subforum. Chrome kind of cheats. tongue.gif

If you put the mouse cursor towards the dark blue sides and scroll down in Firefox, CPU usage is drastically reduced.

I wanted to give a shout out to Riou for noticing this bug. We had found the issue in QA and I was happy to see someone else notice the issue. For those of you that understand how DOM events work, there is a misbehaving mouseout listener that is causing a major slowdown in some browsers. This is a great example of one of the many fixes that will be live tomorrow. We're looking forward to everyones' feedback once it's available.

Please let me know if you have any other questions, I'll do my best to address them.
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post #114 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeddyG View Post

I wanted to give a shout out to Riou for noticing this bug. We had found the issue in QA and I was happy to see someone else notice the issue. For those of you that understand how DOM events work, there is a misbehaving mouseout listener that is causing a major slowdown in some browsers. This is a great example of one of the many fixes that will be live tomorrow. We're looking forward to everyones' feedback once it's available.

We'll be waiting patiently and expectantly for about 30 hours. I look forward to seeing significant performance gains tomorrow. thumb.gif
     
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post #115 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeddyG View Post


Please let me know if you have any other questions, I'll do my best to address them.


What about the internetwork possibility? I know that when I have run a variety of DL meters, the speed of DL depends on the originating network. There are a number of networks and for each one there can be few connections to other networks. It's the weakness of the internetwork - the Internet - system. You can speed up by having servers on multiple networks. Yes?

 

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post #116 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeddyG View Post

Hello everybody. I'm Ted, Huddler's CTO. Thanks for all the feedback so far, good and bad. We read it all and take it incredibly seriously.
I'm hoping I can shed some light on a few of your questions and answer any others that come up.

Hi Ted, how are you. hope all is monetizing well and increasing your value in the market place and turning profits.


However and please take this seriously, your platform has a massive performance problem.


Quote:
I think in some cases things are simply being misunderstood. The Huddler platform, from an architecture perspective, has a lot more in common with vBulletin than it is different. As Chipp and others have said, it is built on the LAMP stack and functions very similarly. The majority of the page is all still rendered server-side, just as is was before. User interactions with the page is where Javascript comes into play. Some good examples of this are the forum nav fly-out menu in the header, editor toolbars and the user menus (displayed when you hover on a username).
We agree that the Javascript could be more efficient and we're working on it. The next release (going out tomorrow) will be the first of many improvements on that end.

there needs to be allot less Js, in fact from looking at the page source, its like over 50% Js, which is just awful. the only time this would be acceptable would be with a game interface similar to flash games. I would expect this type of performance in such a situation. Most of these controls could be written in far lighter language, though that would require a significant investment on your end to write all that code. Deployment is critical especially in light of investor pressure. JS was likely allot easier to implement the features you sought. Not that there is anything wrong with this, but it not a viable solution for every user.
Quote:
I wanted to give a shout out to Riou for noticing this bug. We had found the issue in QA and I was happy to see someone else notice the issue. For those of you that understand how DOM events work, there is a misbehaving mouseout listener that is causing a major slowdown in some browsers. This is a great example of one of the many fixes that will be live tomorrow. We're looking forward to everyones' feedback once it's available.
Please let me know if you have any other questions, I'll do my best to address them.

did you not do platform/browser QA, this bug is so easy to spot it begs to ask the following question, who the hell is doing QA over there. Fire that person hire someone else.
post #117 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehume View Post

What about the internetwork possibility? I know that when I have run a variety of DL meters, the speed of DL depends on the originating network. There are a number of networks and for each one there can be few connections to other networks. It's the weakness of the internetwork - the Internet - system. You can speed up by having servers on multiple networks. Yes?

Our data center (located in Dallas, TX) is currently peered with Abovenet, Comcast, Global Crossing, Level3, NTT, Qwest and TeliaSonera. The routes and connectivity have been fantastic and reliable in our experience.

If you or any other user is experiencing unusually high latency or low throughput, please send me a PM with your location, provider and IP address. I'd like to look a little closer.
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post #118 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCollins View Post

Hi Ted, how are you. hope all is monetizing well and increasing your value in the market place and turning profits.
However and please take this seriously, your platform has a massive performance problem.

I'm doing well thanks.

I'm sorry that you have misinterpreted our intentions for the platform and the site. Our only goal is to build the best forum platform available and to help online communities thrive. It's just that simple. Advertising is required to make that possible, just as it was required for OCN on the previous platform.

We do take the performance issues seriously and are doing everything possible to address them. It's not currently where we want to ultimately be and we're making improvements with every release.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCollins View Post

there needs to be allot less Js, in fact from looking at the page source, its like over 50% Js, which is just awful. the only time this would be acceptable would be with a game interface similar to flash games. I would expect this type of performance in such a situation. Most of these controls could be written in far lighter language, though that would require a significant investment on your end to write all that code. Deployment is critical especially in light of investor pressure. JS was likely allot easier to implement the features you sought. Not that there is anything wrong with this, but it not a viable solution for every user.

I do agree that there could be less JS and lightening that load is one of the many improvements we're making.

I'm not sure what you mean by a far lighter language. Javascript is the only client/browser-side language that's available in all browsers. Almost all webpages are composed of HTML, CSS and Javascript. Would you suggest Silverlight? wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCollins View Post

did you not do platform/browser QA, this bug is so easy to spot it begs to ask the following question, who the hell is doing QA over there. Fire that person hire someone else.

Well...even calling that issue a bug is probably a bit strong. All of the platform functionality worked just fine in all browsers. It just caused some browsers with older technology to bog down (because the event was firing too frequently/aggressively), it didn't actually break anything.

We test in all major browsers and given the many variables involved (browsers, operating systems, connectivity, etc.), coupled with our rapid pace of development, our QA team does an incredible job.
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post #119 of 158
The way I see it, people are willing to shell out $60 for a video game on launch that has issues until 2-3 patches that will take a few months to arrive but god forbid if they have to wait one week for the issues in a free upgrade to their favorite website to get ironed out. Have a little faith, patience and gratitude. Maybe it takes seeing the massive lists of features, issues and decisions that were tackled during the beta for some people to understand but I feel shame for some of the childish responses.
post #120 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeddyG View Post

Our only goal is to build the best forum platform available and to help online communities thrive. It's just that simple.

In like-minded fashion, I'll offer a rather simplistic solution; OCN was based on vB3, which dates to March 2004 - as CTO, get your platform to offer comparable performance to that 6.5 year-old software, and you'll see a much more positive response.

Hint - Turning a lightweight, fast forum into a "sleek, feature-rich web-based community" is fine in theory; just like bloatware on a computer though, there comes a point where it adds nothing substantive, and simply detracts from the user experience. In other words Ted, offering up the excuse of "but look at all the new stuff you have to play with now" isn't acceptable.

Best of luck, sir.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TFL Replica View Post

The way I see it, people are willing to shell out $60 for a video game on launch that has issues until 2-3 patches that will take a few months to arrive but god forbid if they have to wait one week for the issues in a free upgrade to their favorite website to get ironed out. Have a little faith, patience and gratitude. Maybe it takes seeing the massive lists of features, issues and decisions that were tackled during the beta for some people to understand but I feel shame for some of the childish responses.

The way I see it, posts like that are why many here loathe the appearance of "sherpas", "editors", and "moderators" in these threads (with the sole exception of one person that I've seen, which you can go find for yourself, if you so desire); you obfuscate the truth, speak with talking points, and tow the company line.

Go look at other forums that have made the migration to Huddler; the complaints between each are literally verbatim. At the end of the day, it boils down to this for many (I'm quoting here from one of those aforementioned sites, on a post that was made six-months post transition): "Must say I've kinda gotten used to it. the same way you eventually get used to spending the rest of your life in a wheelchair after a car accident."
Edited by jlells01 - 11/16/11 at 7:55pm
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